VT warning.

[senechal]

I noticed on the photo post that Samson Ice with Grizzly splices was used - Griz splice is not an optimal interface with the Hitchclimber I find. I always found micropulleys revolving right through the bottom braids of the VT, leaving the braids jammed open.

I stick with double fisherman's knots so I can buy my beeline and HRC in bulk and cut custom lengths, and the interface on a Hitchclimber is excellent.

A tight eye splice on your climbing line is also key.

 

[tree MDS]

I noticed on the photo post that Samson Ice with Grizzly splices was used - Griz splice is not an optimal interface with the Hitchclimber I find. I always found micropulleys revolving right through the bottom braids of the VT, leaving the braids jammed open.

I stick with double fisherman's knots so I can buy my beeline and HRC in bulk and cut custom lengths, and the interface on a Hitchclimber is excellent.

A tight eye splice on your climbing line is also key.

I'm using the same setup as you, its working nicely so far.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I'm using the same setup as you, its working nicely so far.

I've been thinking of switching over and buying bulk too. I've tried Beeline, I'm on Ice right now, and I have an HRC eye to eye to test as well. Once I figure out which one I like best I'll probably buy more and make my own.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

ALTERNATIVE to a long eye splice

Singlejack
...
I'm not real keen on having more,"links in my chain". I would be interested in the knotted termination method you mentioned. Thanks.

Hey singlejack, lemme get one of those beers...

DISCLAIMER: What follows is an ALTERNATIVE to a long eye splice.
If you like - use at your own risk.
If you don't like - don't use, that's fine.
But, it works for me. After all ...

My rig has only ONE registered voter ... and it ain't .gov!

OK, Here goes:
Some time ago, while working on a new rig, I considered climbing rope with spliced eyes. Advice from rahtreelimbs urged me to cleanup my rig by replacing the BIG clinch knot with an eye splice. But, I just got two new ropes without eyes. And, the eye wouldn't go through my rope sleeve. So, I started looking for alternatives.

A post by TheTreeSpyder got me interested in the figure 9 loop. Did some research and found "Life on a line" by Dr. Dave F. Merchant: (Second edtion, £14.95): http://www.lifeonaline.com/

In it Dr. Merchant states: "The figure 9 should be the knot of choice in any full rescue loading where a figure 8 knot would normally be used. The figure 8 has a place as a general working knot, but there is no realistic reason for using it when the figure 9 is identical in operation and a lot stronger. ... It is extremely easy to untie, even after extreme loading. It resists slip and rollover and can be tied in stiff and slippy ropes."

Other sources have claimed the Figure 9 loop is nearly as strong as an eye splice. If the F9 has a long loop, then the knot does not interfere with the friciton hitch - another important criterion that has been discussed on this thread.

However, a long loop (eye or knot) does not 'grab' the biner adequately. So, rubber bands are often recommended to solve the problems. In a later separate post I'll show three other alternatives to those rubber bands. But, for now, here are pix of the just one alternative to a Long Eye Splice which should keep the "Knotted termination" from "interfering with correct hitch function".

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

ALTERNATIVES to a Tight Eye Splice

For use with the Hitch Climber,
Treemanineers recommends:
a Tight Eye Splice or,
a Long Eye Splice with a
CONTRICTION BAND:

There are alternatives to be considered as you choose:

VELCRO STRAP:

WIRE TIE:

WHIPPED WITH FRAPPING TURNS:

 

[Blakesmaster]

That figure 9 is a cool looking knot, SJ, but looks like quite a bit to untie and tie every time you switch TIPs. Especially if you use a wire tie, whipping, or something else to cinch it better on your biner.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

That figure 9 is a cool looking knot, SJ, but looks like quite a bit to untie and tie every time you switch TIPs. Especially if you use a wire tie, whipping, or something else to cinch it better on your biner.

No need to untie it! Just slide it off the biner. Set the new TIP or work around a branch. Then slide it back on. OR ... if in on its own biner, like with the HC rig, just unclip the biner for switching TIPs.

The whole point is; it works exactly like an eye splice! Just like the eyes on the friction hitch. Right?

 

[Blakesmaster]

No need to untie it! Just slide it off the biner. Set the new TIP or work around a branch. Then slide it back on. OR ... if in on its own biner, like with the HC rig, just unclip the biner for switching TIPs.

The whole point is; it works exactly like an eye splice! Just like the eyes on the friction hitch. Right?

You can't pull it through a friction saver or even a mildly tight crotch though when it's tied.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

You can't pull it through a friction saver or even a mildly tight crotch though when it's tied.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. You would have to untie the F9 if you have to reset a ringed friction saver while topside. I usually use a leather rope sleeve which stays on the rope when I know I'll need set a new TIP. So, I don't untie. But, you raise a valid point.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

That figure 9 is a cool looking knot, SJ, but looks like quite a bit to untie and tie every time you switch TIPs. Especially if you use a wire tie, whipping, or something else to cinch it better on your biner.

I've really got to stop posting when half "asleep" ... or ... whatever
So, here's the post I should have made:

The "ALTERNATIVES to a Tight Eye Splice" post was primarily intended to show other ways to cinch a Long Eye Splice on a biner. A wire tie or whipping on a Long Eye Splice should pass through the rings of a friction saver nicely.

My rig doesn't need any of them because I use a different system for controlling the terminations at the saddle. Without those 'siezing' alternatives though, the F9 is really quick to untie and retie on the rare occasions I need to.

The only reason I prefer the F9 instead of an eye splice is because I like having the option of using a rope sleeve. I really like to use the leather type on the other end of my climb line for double crotching because they're so easy to carry, set and retrieve when topside.

There's really no reason why rope sleeves couldn't be just a little bigger to pass an eye splice. I suppose I could get some leather and make one but ...

Anyway, thanks for pointing out that an F9 plus any semi-premanent seizing would indeed be a PITA when using a ring friction saver.

Jack

 

[Blakesmaster]

Without those 'siezing' alternatives though, the F9 is really quick to untie and retie on the rare occasions I need to.

I guess that is what has me confused. I reset my TIP all the time, what about after you descend? You have to untie the knot and pull it through then, at least, or do you pull the other end of your line through?

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I guess that is what has me confused. I reset my TIP all the time, what about after you descend? You have to untie the knot and pull it through then, at least, or do you pull the other end of your line through?

I do untie at the end of every climb and use the other end of the line for the next climb to help make the rope last longer. I swap ends on my i2i, too - so it will last longer. Also, I usually set my friction saver as high in the tree as I can so most of the time I never have to move it - just redirect or double crotch. When I do need to go higher, I'll leave the friction saver and set another TIP just like double crotching - with a rope sleeve on the other end of the rope. I'll go "old-school" on that end - bowline/blakes. I like keeping those olds skills still alive. Most of the work can be done below 50' never have to go over 80' - no 200' trees around here. So, one line - one TIP usually is sufficient.

Jack

 

[Blakesmaster]

So, one line - one TIP usually is sufficient.

Jack

Cool man, whatever works for you. The main reason I switched to the "newschool" was to open myself up for quick changes and be more efficient. I can't remember the last time I did a tree with one TIP.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Cool man, whatever works for you. The main reason I switched to the "newschool" was to open myself up for quick changes and be more efficient. I can't remember the last time I did a tree with one TIP.

Yes indeed on the "newschool" - my main rig, for those long climbs, is very "newschool" (DLRW). I've found a 'high' TIP lets me move around quicker than me moving the TIP. It's just a climbing style thing - whatever works!!!

BTW, you peaked my curiosity about the F9 and a ring FS. So, I tried it: the Yale XTC Fire F9 passes through the large ring. It's not tight but snug so I don't recommend it - just thought it was interesting.