Why can't I sharpen my chain!?

[ken morgan]

Tried files and guides, never once got the hang of it. Bought one of these for $33 and it makes short work of all my dull chains:
https://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-Tool...836&sr=1-3&keywords=chain+saw+blade+sharpener
Once it is set up I can sharpen a chain in about 5-7 minutes. Nothing macho if you can use a file, or not. All wood I cut is within a short walk of my workshop and by the time the chain is dull I need a break anyhow

guess I should have worded it better, i just recently bought the tecomec version of the 520-120. Still workingon the useing the tool effectivley part. my biggest problem is figureing out this angle of the dangle stuff. the 10 deg downanglestuf has me scratching me head. been following several of @Philberts threads to get an idea but WTF..I am just a dumb Jarhead muddle****ing his way through life...mistakes and screwups are inbound

 

[Philbert]

The 10° down angle is optional.The engineers who test this stuff in calibrated fixtures tell me that it absolutely makes a difference. A lot of guys tell me that they don't notice the difference in typical cutting. Requires a little bit more fussing with the grinder too. I only do it if someone specifically requests it.

Philbert

 

[Robin Wood]

Tried files and guides, never once got the hang of it. Bought one of these for $33 and it makes short work of all my dull chains:
https://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-Tool...836&sr=1-3&keywords=chain+saw+blade+sharpener
Once it is set up I can sharpen a chain in about 5-7 minutes. Nothing macho if you can use a file, or not. All wood I cut is within a short walk of my workshop and by the time the chain is dull I need a break anyhow

not everyone cuts walking distance from their workshop, if you cant hand file too bad. we are trying to show OP how to hand file

 

[RandyinTN]

I don't feel bad because I never mastered hand filing. Guess I didn't win the cookie.

 

[SEAM]

Takes me about 5 mins to get around a 3/8 20-inch chain with the simple Oregon holder, another 5 mins to file down the rakers whenever needed (the Husqvarna flat file is perfect for this job).
I know of high-tech rigs that take longer to just get set up right (and can also ruin a chain when they aren't).
Simple, easy, cheap is what I prefer...

 

[Philbert]

we are trying to show OP how to hand file

The OP's question was why his chain didn't cut well after he tried to sharpen. Lots if ways to sharpen; some work better than others for some guys.

On that particular chain, I would even it up on a grinder before filing it again.

Good idea to carry a few spare chains if you have trouble sharpening in the field.

Philbert

 

[ken morgan]

The OP's question was why his chain didn't cut well after he tried to sharpen. Lots if ways to sharpen; some work better than others for some guys.

On that particular chain, I would even it up on a grinder before filing it again.

Good idea to carry a few spare chains if you have trouble sharpening in the field.

Philbert

ha ha I just rocked another chain.....sorry but Ken does not hand file anymore....easier to carry 5 or 6 chains and just swap them until i get back to the shop.....its Philberts fault and yes while I can...I won't

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Okay, back from vacation. I see y'all have continued to carry on without me! Any way, I've confirmed here's what I have:

ArborPro 18" bar and chain combo with .325 pitch and .050 gauge chain (WoodlandPro), requiring a 3/16" round file.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Ok ,i pulled a file jig out of the wrapper for a demo for the op ,this one is made by oregon

I do already have one of those in addition to the hand-held Grandberg. I do struggle every time with setting up the Grandberg. Maybe it's not for someone like me who doesn't do this often enough.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Tried files and guides, never once got the hang of it. Bought one of these for $33 and it makes short work of all my dull chains:
https://www.amazon.com/Buffalo-Tool...836&sr=1-3&keywords=chain+saw+blade+sharpener

Thanks for the suggestion. Now that I really need to take a big swing at this chain I am considering some sort of grinder. Did you also consider the Harbor Freight grinder?

 

[RandyinTN]

No I didn’t consider the other one. The one from Amazon received higher reviews than grinders costing a lot more. It took me awhile to figure out how to set it up but once done it all makes sense. 95% of what I cut is white or red oak and a freshly sharpened chain cuts as good and as straight as a new chain.
Once it is set up you can do a chain from a 20 inch bar in about 5 - 7 minutes

 

[Philbert]

I do struggle every time with setting up the Grandberg.

The Granberg style file guides can give you very sharp, very consistent cutters, but it can be confusing to set up at first.

More discussion, and links to a few videos, in this thread (e.g. see Post #98):

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Philbert

 

[Huskitoter]

Okay, back from vacation. I see y'all have continued to carry on without me! Any way, I've confirmed here's what I have:

ArborPro 18" bar and chain combo with .325 pitch and .050 gauge chain (WoodlandPro), requiring a 3/16" round file.

Have you determined which type bar you have - full size or narrow kerf?

 

[ken morgan]

I have one of the powered grandberg, that i bought several years ago, and while it takes a while to setup initially, for the occasional user it is perfect...I bought the techomec after several nights of perusing chain threads and a few too many bourbon on the rocks.... I honestly do not need it, but its like any other hobby for me, I get wrapped up in it. too be honest a grandberg will clean up a rocked chain as well just more time consuming.

 

[ericm979]

I'm no novice at chain sharpening but I've never been able to get a sliding file holder type sharpener to work right. I've tried the Granberg File n joint and Stihl's version. I'd rather do it by hand. The trick is to move your hand straight so you don't get a curved tooth, and to pull back/up so you file the underside of the tooth instead of the chain link straps. Just follow the existing angle. The Husky roller thing also works well but you need one for each size chain and I have three different sizes, and moving it to the next tooth and getting it positioned takes time, making the process take longer.

The problem with bench grinders (besides being in the shop and not in the field) is that they take more off the teeth than files do. Also with files you have to get down and look at what you're doing. Now that I'm getting old I need to use reading glasses.

 

[Philbert]

I have one of the powered grandberg, . . . for the occasional user it is perfect....

Lots of ways to do it. ***The key is knowing what you want your cutters to look like when finished**** Once you understand that, you can use a variety of tools to get there.

. . . I've never been able to get a sliding file holder type sharpener to work right. . . . I'd rather do it by hand. . . . The Husky roller thing also works well . . .

Any of these methods can work. Sometimes it takes someone to show you how they do it, and you learn that method, develop some skill, experience, and a preference.

The problem with bench grinders (besides being in the shop and not in the field) is that they take more off the teeth than files do.

I have run 120V grinders off of a generator when in the field for extended periods (hurricane and tornado responses). Can also do this at a base camp at night. Some rotary grinders also run off of batteries, or clip onto your vehicle's 12V battery. I expect that we will see 40V and 120V battery chain grinders in the not-too-distant future.

Grinders only take off what you let them. You can do each tooth separately, and just 'kiss' each cutter for a touch-up sharpen; but one of their real advantages is 'evening out' all of the cutters on a loop, so that they are at the same angles, and the same length, after being hand filed a few times, for smoother cutting. That is even suggested in several operators' manuals. Grinders are also helpful for cleaning up chains that were severely rocked; where metal needs to come off no matter how it is removed, to restore cutting profiles and edges.

Philbert

 

[Ted Jenkins]

When hand filing there are some things that work and some that do not. Some file only with their right hand and others use their left. I use both just as well. If you need to move the saw around for the hand that you use to sharpen then that is important. If you have to kneel down in a awkward position then your job will be off. You must get into a comfortable position. Whether in the field or at their shop if you hand file you need a good vice. If your chain is moving around it is extra tough to end up with a good cut. If your chain is sliding around then tighten it. It can be adjusted when ready to cut. Grab a small section of new chain to take with you out in the field as a model for you to look at while filing or learning. Also bring a well worn chain with you to look at while sharpening so you can compare as your chain wears. As least for starting the chains do not have to be perfect just close. As far as the rakers are concerned I file them first and guess at how much to take off. Those that are not sure then they must be filed last. I check one or two cutters and rakers to get an idea at how low they should look like. I note at how long they are after filing. Once I know how long they should look then I make them about the same. With the right sized file for starting the only thing to be concerned about is getting under the chrome just a little indicating that the cutting edge is sharp. When the edge of the chrome is starting to curl or flake at the edge then they are sharp enough. Use the new chain as a guide for the angle. Do not be concerned about the hook or shape that fine tuning will come later. Most will be thrilled when they see their work turning into chips flying. After a few dozen chains or file jobs getting the hook just right takes some practice. After hundreds of feet of chain I look at a chain that I used last week and think who sharpened that it needs more hook or a lot less hook. Thanks

 

[SEAM]

Practice and inquisitive imagination are the key. Looking at the parts of a well-functioning (or new) chain and trying to image which one does what and why they look like they do on a chain that cuts well. It is not only the cutters that get the job done, the rakers have to be a height that will produce chips the right size and volume to be transported through the cut efficiently, etc. etc...
Placing a straightedge over the cutters along the mounted chain makes the gap between the straightedge and the rakers visible, which is probably about the thickness of a finger nail (I actually check the depth using my finger nails in the field if I don't have a gauge).

Also, the bar needs to be in top shape without excessive burring and groove play to enable the chain to work perfectly.

Getting a dull chain back in working order should be no problem with any suitable tool if you know what you're aiming at.

 

[boltonranger]

Practice and inquisitive imagination are the key. Looking at the parts of a well-functioning (or new) chain and trying to image which one does what and why they look like they do on a chain that cuts well. It is not only the cutters that get the job done, the rakers have to be a height that will produce chips the right size and volume to be transported through the cut efficiently, etc. etc...
Placing a straightedge over the cutters along the mounted chain makes the gap between the straightedge and the rakers visible, which is probably about the thickness of a finger nail (I actually check the depth using my finger nails in the field if I don't have a gauge).

Also, the bar needs to be in top shape without excessive burring and groove play to enable the chain to work perfectly.

Getting a dull chain back in working order should be no problem with any suitable tool if you know what you're aiming at.

This is very well said.
Particularly the part about “aiming”
Suggest you keep a new chain on hand for comparison as you work on a used chain. Or maybe better- enlarge some of the pics that have been posted here of sharpened cutters and stick the photos on a wall by your workbench.

 

[aokpops]

Ok ,i pulled a file jig out of the wrapper for a demo for the op ,this one is made by oregon ,they should be 10 bucks or less ,it rests on the cutter and the raker to hold the file for a good all purpose sharpen that is not too aggressive on the angles ,similar to stock View attachment 640788
Here is what the top of the cutter looks like after i swiped the cutter a few times ,notice the corner is real pointed ,not bent over like it hit something
View attachment 640789
Here are the side angles it produces ,notice the laser etched mark stihl puts on the cutter ,the side profile lines up pretty close .
View attachment 640790 View attachment 640791
Here is what happens if hold the file too low ,it makes more hook in the side ,it cuts like this ,but ends up very grabby and takes a saw with a lot of power to make it work right and a light hand ,the more hook will also dull quicker ,notice the laser etch is not curved like this .View attachment 640792
the main goal is to file away till you get the point back in the outer corner ,if hit a nail or the dirt or a rock ,it may require a lot of the cutter to be filed back ,sometimes it takes 1/3 of the cutter away to get to a good corner again which looks like that chain will need ,may be good to find someone with a grinder to save that chain ,going to be a while with a file to get it serviceable again .

Looks like a lot of hook but not down to the line . File might be to small , I always put the bottom of the file at the bottom of the cutter line . I see a lot of steel left in that area . And a little makes a big difference