Why can't I sharpen my chain!?

[smokey7]

As far as my depth gauges being sloped the wrong way it was intended to be that way (i am trying something new). In my mind i thought it may make less contact with the wood and may also push the chips rather then gliding over them giving a more consistant cut. That chain cuts very very well. It self feeds very well and isnt too grabby when using the dawgs. I did notice after measuring the actual depth they were .032 and i think thats bout where i like them for the wood i cut. My top plate angle is 28 my head angle aka side plate angle is not adjustable so probably a standard angle and seems to work well.

 

[HarleyT]

Need to figure out how to draw on pictures

Save the pic to your desktop, then right click on the icon, go to "open with" and click on "paint".

 

[Philbert]

Save the pic to your desktop, then right click on the icon, go to "open with" and click on "paint".

I import photos into PowerPoint (if you have that) and use the drawing tools there.
When done, I take a screen shot of the image, which will open up in most browsers without special software.

Philbert

 

[HarleyT]

I import photos into PowerPoint (if you have that) and use the drawing tools there.
When done, I take a screen shot of the image, which will open up in most browsers without special software.

Philbert

I don't know if I have that. I think it may be on the wifey's laptop, she has Office.

 

[aokpops]

Save the pic to your desktop, then right click on the icon, go to "open with" and click on "paint".

Enlarge the picture you then can see the red line .

 

[HarleyT]

Enlarge the picture you then can see the red line .

Good words to live by.....

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Diagnosis from the Chain Doctor . . .

Received 2 chains from the OP today (.325 narrow kerf: one Carlton/WoodlandPRO; one Husqvarna/Oregon). Pretty standard stuff. Normally I say that you can't tell what is going on until the chain is cleaned, but in these cases, the caked on crud showed where the leading corners had scraped against something, and were abraded. This causes the cutters to be pushed away from the wood, instead of into it.

I do not remember when I needed to clean a chain or when if I ever did. I am pretty sure the chain was dirty because the OP kept cutting after the chain was dull. When the chain gets really hot from being used dull pitch sticks to it. Unless I have only one round to cut before loading up to leave can not tolerate a dull chain. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

I do not remember when I needed to clean a chain or when if I ever did. I am pretty sure the chain was dirty because the OP kept cutting after the chain was dull. When the chain gets really hot from being used dull pitch sticks to it. Unless I have only one round to cut before loading up to leave can not tolerate a dull chain. Thanks

I get that. I have found lots of interesting things under the crud, grease, etc. on chains I receive.

Some guys only think about oil lubricating the drive links in the guide bar groove; I want it to reach the center part of the rivets as well, and the crud can block that.

Once they get that dirty, gotta clean them to see what is going on, to and make them work right. If you can keep them from getting that dirty in the first place, you are certainly ahead of the game.

Philbert

 

[happysaws]

I get that. I have found lots of interesting things under the crud, grease, etc. on chains I receive.

Some guys only think about oil lubricating the drive links in the guide bar groove; I want it to reach the center part of the rivets as well, and the crud can block that.

Once they get that dirty, gotta clean them to see what is going on, to and make me work right. If you can keep them from getting that dirty in the first place, you are certainly ahead of the game.

Philbert

Mixing a bit of diesel in the bar oil seems to help with this. I mix oil : diesel in about a 5:1 ratio respectively. Works great.

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Normally I say that you can't tell what is going on until the chain is cleaned, but in these cases, the caked on crud showed where the leading corners had scraped against something, and were abraded. This causes the cutters to be pushed away from the wood, instead of into it.

Thanks for all you do Phil! Relative to the leading corners getting abraded, did that likely occur from the wood I was cutting or some sort of misalignment with the saw?

 

[Philbert]

Relative to the leading corners getting abraded, did that likely occur from the wood I was cutting or some sort of misalignment with the saw?

The leading corners get dull from normal use, just like the top plate edges and side plates edge. The abrasion on your chain was predominant on the Right cutters, so I assume that you hit something. Could have been something in the wood. Could have touched the dirt for a second. Hard to know for sure, but nothing unusual. If you took a quick look at your chain, and only glanced at the Left cutters, you might not have seen it.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Gave the chain a bath; ground past the damaged corners; touched up the gullets a hair; adjusted the depth gauges and rounded them over; re-lubed the links. Nothing fancy or aggressive - should cut like the manufacturer intended it to. Maybe we will get a performance report from the OP when the snow melts a bit? I like these narrow kerf .325 chains on my Husqvarna.

I hope we get to see some pics of the chain when it is done!!!

I need to get better at taking close up photos of chains; a lot of guys have better pictures that I can get with my iPhone. Maybe there is an app for that? Anyway, compare to same chain in Post#133.





Will also post some details on this, and a companion chain, in my Chain Challenge thread, when I get to it:
https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...=Chain+Challenge&o=relevance&c[user][0]=12609

Philbert

 

[chipper1]

Gave the chain a bath; ground past the damaged corners; touched up the gullets a hair; adjusted the depth gauges and rounded them over; re-lubed the links. Nothing fancy or aggressive - should cut like the manufacturer intended it to. Maybe we will get a performance report from the OP when the snow melts a bit? I like these narrow kerf .325 chains on my Husqvarna.


I need to get better at taking close up photos of chains; a lot of guys have better pictures that I can get with my iPhone. Maybe there is an app for that? Anyway, compare to same chain in Post#133.

View attachment 645912

View attachment 645913

Will also post some details on this, and a companion chain, in my Chain Challenge thread, when I get to it:
https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...=Chain+Challenge&o=relevance&c[user][0]=12609

Philbert

Nice work Philbert.
About how much time do you have into them.
I hear a lot of guys say they can sharpen a chain in 5-10 min, that may be all to touch one up . When guys bring me chains that look like that I tell them they are dropping them off as it will be a while, 20 min plus is not uncommon (for a 20"). At 5-10 a chain it's more a labor of love than a money maker.

 

[Philbert]

Nice work Philbert.
About how much time do you have into them.
I hear a lot of guys say they can sharpen a chain in 5-10 min, that may be all to touch one up. When guys bring me chains that look like that I tell them they are dropping them off as it will be a while, 20 min plus is not uncommon (for a 20"). At 5-10 a chain it's more a labor of love than a money maker.

Thanks.

Yeah, hard to make money at this; especially when doing it for free! But at the labor rates local shops charge ($72 - $90/hour), and what they charge for 'sharpening' a chain (maybe $7/loop), they only have time for a quick set up and a single pass on each cutter. Might be one of the reasons we hear comments from dissatisfied customers? And it is hard to charge much more, since you can sometimes find Oregon and Carlton chains, new, on sale, for $10 -$15/loop (or less!), let alone the 3rd party brands.

20 minutes/loop is a fair guestimate if doing a bunch of loops in batches. Some things, like cleaning really dirty chains, deburring drive links, damage that takes multiple passes, etc. take longer. Chains where the depth gauges are fine take a little less. If I have a clean chain (usually mine!) that does not need cleaning and re-lubrication, which has not been rocked, and where the depth gauges and gullets have been maintained, it probably takes 10 minutes, including setting up the grinder.

Philbert

 

[chipper1]

Thanks.

Yeah, hard to make money at this; especially when doing it for free! But at the labor rates local shops charge ($72 - $90/hour), and what they charge for 'sharpening' a chain (maybe $7/loop), they only have time for a quick set up and a single pass on each cutter. Might be one of the reasons we hear comments from dissatisfied customers? And it is hard to charge much more, since you can sometimes find Oregon and Carlton chains, new, on sale, for $10 -$15/loop (or less!), let alone the 3rd party brands.

20 minutes/loop is a fair guestimate if doing a bunch of loops in batches. Some things, like cleaning really dirty chains, deburring drive links, damage that takes multiple passes, etc. take longer. Chains where the depth gauges are fine take a little less. If I have a clean chain (usually mine!) that does not need cleaning and re-lubrication, which has not been rocked, and where the depth gauges and gullets have been maintained, it probably takes 10 minutes, including setting up the grinder.

Philbert

Same here.
I get some that are pretty bad off Craigslist with saws I buy, many that look much like my early chains . I like to use one of the stihl 12 volt grinders for cleaning up the drive links. I try not to sharpen for others as there are usually time constraints and I don't like to listen to people complain about me not getting in a hurry to make a couple bucks lol. I usually have a few sharpened chains on hand and sell them with a saw for 2-$25, then I'm getting something for my time and much like firewood you make something for the time, but nothing for the commodity(the chain/wood).
When I have called local shops to see what they charge for sharpening chains just for fun I ask in this order; how much to sharpen a 20" chain and hit the rakers/depth gauges, oh okay how much do you charge for shop labor, okay how long does it take to sharpen a chain, thank for your time .
Maybe I should ask how much did they make talking to me on the phone . I was recently told of a dealer who when asked to sharpen a chain will tell you to go grab a chain off the rack and sell it to you for $8, they probably loose less doing that than grinding a chain for $8 dollars if the shop does any volume of sales and repair work at all. Most shops are either using chain sharpening as a loss leader or they are tripping over dollars to make dimes.

 

[Philbert]

I got started trying to save / maintain chains for a volunteer, disaster response group. As a non-profit, chains got expensive, as they are easily damaged under those circumstances ('disasters', and 'volunteers'!). I also hate to see things wasted. This evolved into a 'chain scrounging' behavior, once I learned a few things: some from forums like this, and some from experimentation. I have tried to share most of it, in threads like those below:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philbert-meets-the-stihl-rs3.202969/

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/

https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...nding-and-drive-link-deburring-wheels.284866/

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/deburing-drive-links.249436/

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/baileys-chain-breaker-and-spinner.144859/

Philbert

 

[lambs]

I probably spend about 20 minutes on a 20" chain if it doesn't have damaged cutters. But many of mine are damaged, so I turn on the radio and enjoy the time in the shop. I do not often grind a chain for anyone else so overall it's not taking a lot of my time.

I have gotten away from using my second grinder (NT) to do depth gauges. I clamp the appropriate gauge bar into a bench vise, set the chain in the bar, grab a depth gauge tool and file the gauges by hand. If needed I'll check the drop using a tilt box as I work my way around the chain.

Many thanks to BobL (again) for that excellent post about progressive filing!

 

[SEAM]

I quit sharpening chains for others and show them how to do it instead. Would be doing nothing but sharpening chains other people screwed up otherwise...

 

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Holy cow, sharp chains matter! Finally got a chance yesterday to try out my "new" chain. Damn thing cut through oak like it was a balsa wood! Thanks Phil!

 

[boltonranger]

Gave the chain a bath; ground past the damaged corners; touched up the gullets a hair; adjusted the depth gauges and rounded them over; re-lubed the links. Nothing fancy or aggressive - should cut like the manufacturer intended it to. Maybe we will get a performance report from the OP when the snow melts a bit? I like these narrow kerf .325 chains on my Husqvarna.


I need to get better at taking close up photos of chains; a lot of guys have better pictures that I can get with my iPhone. Maybe there is an app for that? Anyway, compare to same chain in Post#133.

View attachment 645912

View attachment 645913

Will also post some details on this, and a companion chain, in my Chain Challenge thread, when I get to it:
https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...=Chain+Challenge&o=relevance&c[user][0]=12609

Philbert

It looks almost new.
Very nice work Philbert.
It would be interesting to see the first few cuts on video.