Wood Stove vs. Wood Furnace

[Como]

Cooling?

The windows open.

 

[deepsouth]

For me it's funny to read these topics.

But then I was born and grew up in a sub tropical climate without either heating.... Those 4 degree celcius mornings, rising to 14 with a stiff westerly wind in August were brisk.... But all your warm clothes on together fixed it. :hmm3grin2orange:

Now I live in the deep soth of Tasmania, all 40 degrees south. On the coast, and 2 degree celcius nights are common in winter, with days in the low teens. Could live without heating to be honest. When renovating this 1971 built house back in 2006, put in two split system heat pumps, as power was cheap then at 6c per kWh. Now it's over 3x more expensive.

Put in a wood stove upstairs last May ahead of winter.... Much warmer. Also have not run that split system at all. Downstairs is much better insulated, but ran that split all winter. Not too expensive as downstairs is double brick plus insulation and double glazed.

Just need to break the rules and move hot air from the wood stove downstairs..... ????



Even funnier is the fact the split system air con has only done cool when I tested it after install and one time when I needed to cool the house during a relative 35 degree c heat wave when there was no breeze.... Being coastal it's more commonly a howling gale.

 

[Chris-PA]

I am not saying there is anything wrong with a wood stove but when me and my wife first bought our house (my grandfather's) and I fired up the insert I knew there had to be a better way. We just had our second child in October and there is no way I could of built the back bedroom into a nursery without the heat an OWB provides. How much experience do you guys have with an OWB have you ever felt the heat that it produces? It is about as complex as your cars radiator. Transfer heat from water to air. It feels like wood stove heat coming through your vents. I have lived in my home with both systems installed, and there is no way you could walk into my house and honestly say it was more comfortable before I installed the OWB. Do you guys cool your house with a window unit or a forced air AC system? Or do you just open the refrigerator door and let the cool air radiate throughout your house?

We have no A/C, we use windows and fans. One of the fundamental issues is in the differing expectation of constant temperatures people have - different ideas bout what is comfortable or not. I read threads here about people being dissatisfied with the performance of some wood heat system because it does not provide the constant temperatures of the fossil fuel heating systems they're accustomed to. To me, that is irrelevant - I simply don't care if there is a consistent temperature from room to room or over time. We have a lot of stone around the stoves, so it would take a long time for the house to get really cold once they burn down, and that is good enough for us. If we've been gone a while then I expect the house will be cold when I get home - no big deal. On a cold winter morning, our bedroom at the top floor part of the house opposite to the stove will be maybe 52, sometimes 50. That is not uncomfortable to me, and I don't rush about getting dressed. I think we hit 100 a couple of times this year in the basement room with the stove in it.

When the kids were younger we wanted their rooms more constant, so I ran a circuit to those room and used an electric heat thermostat to control an outlet. We bought two of those oil filled electric heaters, and in the winter we plug them in and turn them up max so the wall thermostat can control them. Now that the kids are getting older we don't use them as much anymore.

 

[2rod511]

We have no A/C, we use windows and fans. One of the fundamental issues is in the differing expectation of constant temperatures people have - different ideas bout what is comfortable or not. I read threads here about people being dissatisfied with the performance of some wood heat system because it does not provide the constant temperatures of the fossil fuel heating systems they're accustomed to. To me, that is irrelevant - I simply don't care if there is a consistent temperature from room to room or over time. We have a lot of stone around the stoves, so it would take a long time for the house to get really cold once they burn down, and that is good enough for us. If we've been gone a while then I expect the house will be cold when I get home - no big deal. On a cold winter morning, our bedroom at the top floor part of the house opposite to the stove will be maybe 52, sometimes 50. That is not uncomfortable to me, and I don't rush about getting dressed. I think we hit 100 a couple of times this year in the basement room with the stove in it.

When the kids were younger we wanted their rooms more constant, so I ran a circuit to those room and used an electric heat thermostat to control an outlet. We bought two of those oil filled electric heaters, and in the winter we plug them in and turn them up max so the wall thermostat can control them. Now that the kids are getting older we don't use them as much anymore.

Warrior, I respect your opinion, and I am not trying to be fussy or argumentative, but you kind of made my point for me. It depends on what an individual considers "heating" their house to encompass. If I wanted my house to be 50 or 52 when I woke up, then I would rarely even need to start a fire. 50 or 52 is almost blowing cold smoke, and man you got a hell of a wife. The type of heat a person needs depends largely on their own personal situation. Before I bought the OWB, I would come home from work to a 60 degree max house. Then I would begin to fight the fire to bring the house back to a respectable temperature. Wake up in the morning, and it is time to do it all over again. Now mix in the thousands of other chores that comes with being a father, husband, and part time farmer and it will make you appreciate warm weather.

I stick to my statement that a 3000 sq. ft. house cannot be heated with a wood stove. Temperature extremes like "50 to 100" only further validate that statement. As does the reality that occasionally, you need to supplement your wood stove with other forms of heat.

If we haven't completely stolen this thread, then to the OP you know what your home situation demands of you and that should determine your heating needs. Unless money is the issue, then a wood furnace or wood boiler will always make for a more comfortable home. You can always set your thermostat at 60 degrees one minute and 85 a couple of hours later if you want to experience "wood stove heat".

 

[Ironworker]

Warrior, I respect your opinion, and I am not trying to be fussy or argumentative, but you kind of made my point for me. It depends on what an individual considers "heating" their house to encompass. If I wanted my house to be 50 or 52 when I woke up, then I would rarely even need to start a fire. 50 or 52 is almost blowing cold smoke, and man you got a hell of a wife. The type of heat a person needs depends largely on their own personal situation. Before I bought the OWB, I would come home from work to a 60 degree max house. Then I would begin to fight the fire to bring the house back to a respectable temperature. Wake up in the morning, and it is time to do it all over again. Now mix in the thousands of other chores that comes with being a father, husband, and part time farmer and it will make you appreciate warm weather.

I stick to my statement that a 3000 sq. ft. house cannot be heated with a wood stove. Temperature extremes like "50 to 100" only further validate that statement. As does the reality that occasionally, you need to supplement your wood stove with other forms of heat.

If we haven't completely stolen this thread, then to the OP you know what your home situation demands of you and that should determine your heating needs. Unless money is the issue, then a wood furnace or wood boiler will always make for a more comfortable home. You can always set your thermostat at 60 degrees one minute and 85 a couple of hours later if you want to experience "wood stove heat".

My 3200 sq. ft. Home stays at 68- 72 down stairs and 67-69 upstairs and I have one room over the garage which is the furthest away and that stays between 63-66, if you cannot heat 3000 sq. ft. with a stove than you are doing something wrong, I have 2 other neighbors with similar homes to mine and they have no problem heating with stove inserts and one of them has a smaller Lopi than mine. Only when it gets down to the low teens does my boiler fire up.

 

[sunfish]

We keep our house house between 68 and 78 with a single Jotul 118CB. Prefer closer to 70 than 78... Not as large a house as discussed here, but not a very large stove either. I keep the elec backup set at 65 and it never comes on, even when we get down into the single digits.

 

[Chris-PA]

Warrior, I respect your opinion, and I am not trying to be fussy or argumentative, but you kind of made my point for me. It depends on what an individual considers "heating" their house to encompass. If I wanted my house to be 50 or 52 when I woke up, then I would rarely even need to start a fire. 50 or 52 is almost blowing cold smoke, and man you got a hell of a wife. The type of heat a person needs depends largely on their own personal situation. Before I bought the OWB, I would come home from work to a 60 degree max house. Then I would begin to fight the fire to bring the house back to a respectable temperature. Wake up in the morning, and it is time to do it all over again. Now mix in the thousands of other chores that comes with being a father, husband, and part time farmer and it will make you appreciate warm weather.

I stick to my statement that a 3000 sq. ft. house cannot be heated with a wood stove. Temperature extremes like "50 to 100" only further validate that statement. As does the reality that occasionally, you need to supplement your wood stove with other forms of heat.

If we haven't completely stolen this thread, then to the OP you know what your home situation demands of you and that should determine your heating needs. Unless money is the issue, then a wood furnace or wood boiler will always make for a more comfortable home. You can always set your thermostat at 60 degrees one minute and 85 a couple of hours later if you want to experience "wood stove heat".

Agreed - it is a matter of expectations, and that in turn is all about how much energy you use and the instantaneous rate of energy release (power) the system is capable of.

If you want to ensure a constant higher temperature then you must have a higher capacity heater. I could easily heat mine hotter with the stoves I have, I'd just need to load them more often which I don't always care to do. If I run both stoves hard we'd have the windows open for relief.

An OWB (or any system with a big firebox) will allow you to have a lot more wood in a larger firebox, which allows higher temperatures in the short term (higher output) and/or longer burns to prevent having to load it as often - at the cost of higher mechanical complexity, dependance on electrical power, and using more wood.

The right answer for anyone will depend on what they are expecting the system to do.

 

[mopar969]

Thanks everybody for all of your input, Much Appreciated! Even though I think I can heat my house with a wood stove I am going with a wood furnace and here is why. I have noticed that alot of wood furnaces can also burn coal. Here in Southwestern PA Ican get run of the mill coal for 75 dollars a ton and nice large cleaned col for 90 dollars a ton. Therefore, I am going with a furnace because I am going to burn coal instaed of wood as my primary heat source. Since coal burns hotter I am trying to figure out which furnace I should get. Whewn I was looking at the englander add on furnace it can heat 3000 sq feet but it is only rated at 80,000 btus. Then I looked at a hotblast and it is rated at 125,000 btus but it says it can only heat 1500 sq ft.?http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Since coal burns hotter can I heat my house using a smaller furnace, I am lost with what btus companies can say heat up a certain area but not others?

By the way my current oil furnace is rated at 112,000 for my large well insulated brick house. However, the furnace guy was always worried that it is a little underpowered for my house.

 

[brenndatomu]

Just an FYI, if you don't find the info you need here, try nepacrossroads.com coal burning enthusiasts forum, lots of knowledgeable guys on there.

For what it's worth, I don't see the Englander heating 3000 sq ft unless that is 80k BTU is averaged out over the burn cycle of 1 load of wood (coal) and I doubt that it is. Probably a typo...
The Hotblast # sounds more realistic.

Edit, I looked up the Englander, there is no way that thing will heat 3000 ft, it only has a 850 cfm blower. The BTUs needed to heat 3000 ft would quickly melt that whimpy lil blower into a puddle! I call BS on their #s!

If you're thinking coal burning, look at the Yukon SuperJack. I think it would do a nice job for you since you no longer need a sophisticated secondary burn system, and like I said before, they're built like a tank! I say the SJ, because the BJ and SJ are the same unit except the SJ has the secondary heat exchanger which gives it the extra 35k BTUs. 35k extra BTU is a lot of efficiency gained!

 

[laynes69]

If your going for a coal furnace, get a Hitzer or a Harman. Most wood/coal furnaces won't burn coal correctly. While the hot blast advertises coal, it's a poor anthracite burner and doesn't have the correct firebox shape. The Yukon also advertises coal, but the company doesn't know much about it. Those who successfully burned coal, had to modify some things on their Yukons.

 

[Fyrebug]

+1 on Layne's comments. Hitzer makes a great product and built like a tank by the Amish.

Don't know enough about the other brands or coal to comment. All the Hitzer users & dealers seem happy enough.

 

[brenndatomu]

That's true the Hitzer and Harman are quality units, not sure where they come in on the price range though. Also true that the Yukons burn coal better with a mod, but it is just drilling a hole in the front of the ash pan door for constant under fire air.
I seen a video on utube of a guy that was getting good results burning coal in, I'm pretty sure it was a Hotblast, I think he was in PA. too.

 

[mopar969]

The reason that I was thinking of a hotblast is because parts are easily available. I have heard that since coal has a lot more btus than wood their is times where the fire can get to hot and damage or melt the grate. My other option besides a hot blast or us stove is the daka furnace at northern tool. I was looking at the smaller one that offers 42000-105000 btu's to heat my large house(about 3800 3900 sq ft), I think since my furnace is at 112,000 this will be enough or should I go one size bigger. However to use coal in the daka I need to order the special grate kit. I have not heard of this brand before and this day and age I would hate to buy something this important and the company closes and now I can no longer get parts!!

Let me know what you think and thanks for all input with my choice.

 

[laynes69]

Grates warp when ash accumulates in the ash pan. The air going thru the grates when clean helps cool them. Parts on the hotblast aren't bulletproof, the shaker grates break easily. The firebox also on the hotblast is a v shape, you want a square sides with a full shaker grate bottom. Rolling grates are almost bulletproof and last a while, which are used on the higher end coal burners. 2-8" outlets will NOT heat 3800 sqft. You not only need the btu output but an open plenum with a strong blower. I would bet you would be disappointed and burn out a hotblast fairly quick. You get a unit designed to burn anthracite coal and you'll be happy, get a bad one and there's nothing more frustrating. Had a hotblast 1500 wood/coal furnace here for almost 25 years.

 

[brenndatomu]

Just throwing out another option for you if you're thinking of going with something from a big box store. Menards carries Shelter brand wood/coal furnaces. I don't know anyone that has one or much about them, I just thought they looked well built and had a slick shaker grate system for the money. I think there was a larger one that could be ordered that was rated for larger homes.

Edit: Looked them up, the Shelter SF2631 is 150k BTU and has the 6" flue for ya! I think this is the model my local Menards had on display, if memory serves, it was around $1500.

 

[Como]

I know at least one person who has not heating system, proper design and a lot of passive solar.

If built to current good standards you could only need 40,000 Btus peak for 4,000sq ft.

For comparison purposes my location has 10,500 HDD.

 

[Fyrebug]

The reason that I was thinking of a hotblast is because parts are easily available. I have heard that since coal has a lot more btus than wood their is times where the fire can get to hot and damage or melt the grate. My other option besides a hot blast or us stove is the daka furnace at northern tool. I was looking at the smaller one that offers 42000-105000 btu's to heat my large house(about 3800 3900 sq ft), I think since my furnace is at 112,000 this will be enough or should I go one size bigger. However to use coal in the daka I need to order the special grate kit. I have not heard of this brand before and this day and age I would hate to buy something this important and the company closes and now I can no longer get parts!!

Let me know what you think and thanks for all input with my choice.

“There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.”
― John Ruskin

Long after the euphoria of a 'good deal' dissipates, comes the harsh reality of broken promises...

The problem with buying 'cheap' is that money is as good as flushed down the toilet. There are happy users of cheaper furnaces but such poeple realize they must replace parts on an ongoing basis and put up with noisier and less peforming appliances.

If you want a good store in your area, go to Heating World in Loretto. They specialize in furnaces and boilers (wood, pellet, coal). They have the cheap ones (Hotblast) and the expensive ones. At least pick their brains and they'll help you make the right decision.

 

[mopar969]

I apologize to rise this thread from the grave. However, I am officially going with wood and it is ready to go for this winter. Here is my plan and let me know what you think.

I was going to buy a wood stove then put heating water coils like here in it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOOD-STOVE-...MESTIC-HEATING-WOOD-COAL-STOVES-/251038489087

Then connect it to a heat exchanger and use my existing furnace fan to blow over the exchanger to heat the whole house. Therefore, I will heat my entire house off of one stove which will be very nice and efficient. My question is has anyone ever done this or have experience with this.

 

[brenndatomu]

It's been done. You will find yourself woefully lacking the BTUs that you need to do the job...
If you are dead set on using a HX in your forced air furnace, you need to put in a wood fired boiler.
An add on wood furnace would be easier, cheaper.

 

[mopar969]

I thought that since I am also using the radiant heat and the btu's from the hot water, I can heat my large house with a relatively medium sized 2000 sq ft stove?