Would you allow access to small skidder to pull loads across your property?

[TreeClimber57]

A skidder does not ALWAYS rut up the ground.

Correct.. but if you do not know operator.. then not worth taking chance for only $100.

 

[slowp]

Correct.. but if you do not know operator.. then not worth taking chance for only $100.

If I knew the operator, chances are I'd let them use it for free. Like I said, this is a very negative thread and I am curious as to how many have actually been around a real, professional skidder operation? Either not many or loggers have no pride in their work in the rest of the country.
But I'm not sure if the skidder operator of the original question is a logger or a firewood cutter.

 

[Oldtimer]

Not for $100.. I wouldn't.

Now if he is willing to pay the lawyer fees to get a contract written up; stating that all soil/terrain will be returned to original condition and any tree damaged outside of workzone (which would be specified) will be compensated for at $x.xx (you figure out).. and any waterways (if any) which are crossed are returned to original. Maybe have him post a bond of some sort in trust with lawyer to cover any potential work not completed in cleanup ($10,000 might cover it)..

Then.. if he is still willing to go for it.. the $100 may be ok. Otherwise now.

LMFAO! You're KILLING me here!!! LMFAO!!

 

[teatersroad]

If I knew the operator, chances are I'd let them use it for free. Like I said, this is a very negative thread and I am curious as to how many have actually been around a real, professional skidder operation? Either not many or loggers have no pride in their work in the rest of the country.
But I'm not sure if the skidder operator of the original question is a logger or a firewood cutter.

gotta agree. My beef was someone implying the OP would be a chump to not allow use,.. well that's his call completely. Skid roads all around my cabin. Some you hardly notice, others are pretty deep ruts. So what.. it's the lay of the understory here, and for the most part it's in good shape and nothing to be concerned with. The bigger concern is the bug kill.

 

[clinchscavalry]

My apologies if someone has already posted this, but I didn't read every single post on this thread. My suggestion is to collect a "Performance Deposit" which would be held until the job is completed and then returned (with zero interest) if everything is satisfactory. I do this routinely when I sell timber to insure that the roads are put back in good shape, that tops and debris are pulled back off roads, property lines, etc. So far, I've never had to use it since the loggers/dealers always fix any problems, but the ability to use "their" money seems to be a powerful incentive for them to make things right.

In this case, a skid trail is another issue entirely. IMHO, damage to a road, no matter how bad, can be repaired. But in the woods, soil compaction is a serious problem, and, for all practical purposes, cannot be fixed. Skinned and damaged trees can be cut and paid for, at elevated stumpage prices if necessary.

I would not let them pull across my property in wet weather and would have a clear understanding, in writing, from the outset. For example, give them a certain time period to get the job done with an extension for any time you shut them down due to poor ground conditions.

The amount of the deposit can be determined by the potential amount of damage. Longer skid trails/roads equal more deposit, etc.

I don't like the idea of not allowing someone access to their timber, and I don't really want a payment, but a refundable performance deposit has always been a good compromise for me.

 

[slowp]

Here is an interesting ground compaction tidbit. Weyco did some compaction studies out here on their forests that are west of I-5. The studies found that the seedlings planted in the compacted part of skid trails, were only slowed in growth for the first one or two years. Then, the root system had grown out beyond the compacted area and tree growth equaled the seedlings that were planted off the trail.

They use a designated skid trail system while logging...loggers have to stay on the pre-planned trail.

 

[Justsaws]

If I knew the operator, chances are I'd let them use it for free. Like I said, this is a very negative thread and I am curious as to how many have actually been around a real, professional skidder operation? Either not many or loggers have no pride in their work in the rest of the country.
But I'm not sure if the skidder operator of the original question is a logger or a firewood cutter.

I think that if you were to accept that what is normal for you is not normal everywhere you might be less "curious".

The OP asked for opinions and is getting some. I KNOW lots of loggers, owner/operators and I would never give any of them work access to my property without a contract.

As to skidding operations, the whole reason that I would not give access in a situation as the OP describes IS BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN AROUND SKIDDER TRAILS.

OP owns 10 acres of 12 year pine growth, on the skidder path ( being nice, 20' wide x 5 acres)how many years will having a skidder drive over those trees set them back?

How well will dragging some branchs behind the skidder replant the damaged area?

$100.00 would be considered a slap in the face to most people and is the first clue that you do not want this operator having access to you land. Once access is granted and work begins it is much more difficult to control the damage. Skidder trail might end up being very wide and winding as it "needs" to be cut by the OP'S only decent trees, you know the old trees have the most solid ground around them and the roots help keep the skidder from sinking.

 

[clinchscavalry]

Here is an interesting ground compaction tidbit. Weyco did some compaction studies out here on their forests that are west of I-5. The studies found that the seedlings planted in the compacted part of skid trails, were only slowed in growth for the first one or two years. Then, the root system had grown out beyond the compacted area and tree growth equaled the seedlings that were planted off the trail.

They use a designated skid trail system while logging...loggers have to stay on the pre-planned trail.

Sorry, but Weyco "forestry", at least in these parts, is certainly nothing to emulate:msp_thumbdn:
Not coincidentally, they sold all of their lands in GA, or at least everything I know of. But that's a whole 'nother story.

Soils are different from region to region, but compacted red clay in our neck of the woods is ruined forever. Maybe it's not so bad where there's a rock layer close to the surface or other strata that resists compaction.

I would estimate how much land is involved in the proposed skid trail or trails and collect enough of a deposit to basically "pay for" the bare land in case it was ruined by working at the wrong time of year. On the other hand, it would be much more practical to just regulate the job so that the work is done only during dry periods.

Oh, and stacking tops in skidder ruts is not a fix

 

[forestryworks]

OP owns 10 acres of 12 year pine growth

Time for the OP to start thinking about a thin within the next 2-4 years. Plan your timber for the future, the now is gone tomorrow.

 

[slowp]

Stacking or placing slash in normal used skid trails, out here, not Georgia, can work as an erosion control method. The contracts I've worked with also require subsoiling. However, in a tightly spaced thinning, subsoiling can pop leave tree roots and cause additional damage. Our soil is pretty forgiving...and drains quickly. In the photo I posted, way back, the soil was fluffed up or subsoiled to a minimum of 18 inches, with the loader grapples. This practice has been deemed acceptable by the forest soil biologist. During the subsoiling process, the operator can and did throw tops and slash on top of the subsoiling. That's a kind of mulching here. We live in a lush area and the native brush will be growing in the old trails this year, and by the end of next year, the trails will look like the rest of the forest floor. Rutting was not a problem. The contract specified no more than 6 inches deep for 10 feet. If they had exceeded that, they would not have been operating.

The operator took extra steps because they wanted to keep going during the wet season. Skid trails were flagged in on the high ground--little ridges. I walked every single skid trail before cutting began and also marked the extra trees to be cut for their construction. The operator had the unit cut by human fallers, then, in some areas walked his loader out and bunched the logs. You saw the cat working.

The important fact is that the whole team of people working there wanted to make things work. Yes, there is bonding held, and the contract is about an inch thick. I had time to be out there a lot, and was. They knew I'd be out checking frequently. It worked.

We do notice that in some of the plantations that are being logged, the largest trees are growing in the old skid trails. In fact, on one unit, the logger said he disliked having to use the old skid trails for this entry, because that was where the best trees for the future were growing. He's the logger that my friend wanted back.

We used the old trails. They got some good logs.

It depends where you live. We do not have clay soils. We have well draining pumice rich soils.