Hey guys. Sorry I haven't been able to respond in the past couple days. I'm responsible for quite a bit of things here at TEMCo, and several tasks have required my urgent attention. Just wanted to follow up and say I haven't abandoned this thread and will respond when I get some time to do that. My apologies for my absence!
Automatic Chain Sharpener - Under $300
- Thread starter Philbert
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Some additional information under the cover.
There appear to be several magnets (?) embedded in the rim of the groove, near the proximity sensor (about 10 o'clock), as well as a clamp to pinch the drive link near the cutter being ground (about 1 o'clock). These could be damaged if attempting to widen the groove. I would not do this without approval from the manufacturer.
EDIT: note, that the embedded magnets correspond to the 'tight spot' I mentioned in an earlier post (Post #75) regarding groove width.
Philbert
Because I'm All About the Base
I know that some guys are in a hurry to stick a chain in this thing. I wanted to get to know it a bit, become familiar with it, before I mounted it for the first time.
Made a plywood board a little over 6 inches wide. 18 inches would be a good length for clamping the FP1000 to a work surface - this one is a bit shorter to fit in the carton for shipping.
The mounting holes are very small (5/32"), which fit the sheet metal screws provided. I wanted a more secure, and removable mount, so I introduced the grinder to my friend, Mr. Dremel, and they now accept 10-24 machine screws, which fasten into 'T- nuts in the base.
As with other grinders, other options might include:
- a base with a cleat, to mount in a bench vise when needed;
- a base with a post, to mount in the stake pocket of a pickup truck bed, for 12V operation;
- brackets to attach to a stand, step ladder, saw horses, etc.;
- multiple bases for different locations ('T'- nuts make this easy).
Just be sure that the mounting surface is high enough so that the longest chains you sharpen clear the ground.
The screws holding the clear, wheel guard are also quite small. Each screw requires approximately (40) quarter turns to remove the guard; this was after learning that the screws do not have to be completely removed. But 2 screws, removed, then replaced, requires a lot of wrist motion. And, if you do the depth gauges . . . well, you do the math. The small, Phillips heads do not lend themselves well to repeated use with a power driver; I think that they would strip out quickly.
I am finding that the manual is helpful, but I really need those You Tube videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLpdULstU6ZrqvjOqM4W69_4KsTBy3kFRv&v=Q542WZhubEA
I hope that TEMCo makes both available for download on their site - guys who do not have good Internet access might want them on their computer (or burned to a DVD) for reference. I also added a few labels with my labelmaker for OCD reasons.
Starting to play with some scrap chains (as I recommend everyone to do with a new grinder), before moving to good loops. I do not want to post any pictures of cutters until I have a good understanding of how it works, as it might not be a fair representation of the grinder's abilities.
Philbert
I know that some guys are in a hurry to stick a chain in this thing. I wanted to get to know it a bit, become familiar with it, before I mounted it for the first time.
Made a plywood board a little over 6 inches wide. 18 inches would be a good length for clamping the FP1000 to a work surface - this one is a bit shorter to fit in the carton for shipping.
The mounting holes are very small (5/32"), which fit the sheet metal screws provided. I wanted a more secure, and removable mount, so I introduced the grinder to my friend, Mr. Dremel, and they now accept 10-24 machine screws, which fasten into 'T- nuts in the base.
As with other grinders, other options might include:
- a base with a cleat, to mount in a bench vise when needed;
- a base with a post, to mount in the stake pocket of a pickup truck bed, for 12V operation;
- brackets to attach to a stand, step ladder, saw horses, etc.;
- multiple bases for different locations ('T'- nuts make this easy).
Just be sure that the mounting surface is high enough so that the longest chains you sharpen clear the ground.
The screws holding the clear, wheel guard are also quite small. Each screw requires approximately (40) quarter turns to remove the guard; this was after learning that the screws do not have to be completely removed. But 2 screws, removed, then replaced, requires a lot of wrist motion. And, if you do the depth gauges . . . well, you do the math. The small, Phillips heads do not lend themselves well to repeated use with a power driver; I think that they would strip out quickly.
I am finding that the manual is helpful, but I really need those You Tube videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLpdULstU6ZrqvjOqM4W69_4KsTBy3kFRv&v=Q542WZhubEA
I hope that TEMCo makes both available for download on their site - guys who do not have good Internet access might want them on their computer (or burned to a DVD) for reference. I also added a few labels with my labelmaker for OCD reasons.
Starting to play with some scrap chains (as I recommend everyone to do with a new grinder), before moving to good loops. I do not want to post any pictures of cutters until I have a good understanding of how it works, as it might not be a fair representation of the grinder's abilities.
Philbert
panolo
Seldom right...Always opinionated!
Read the instructions and review the You Tube videos. It appears that some adjustments are made with the '+' and '-' buttons, and some with the knobs.
I agee that precisiyis important; it is why I am 'playing ' with it for a while!
Philbert
I agee that precisiyis important; it is why I am 'playing ' with it for a while!
Philbert
panolo
Seldom right...Always opinionated!
I did. The knobs don't move the arms at all. Do your knobs move the arm?
panolo
Seldom right...Always opinionated!
I put a phone call in and may have found a fix to my issue. Will try when I get home. I will say that the customer service was superb! I was disconnected and when I rang back 30 seconds later they were already trying to call me back! Will post an update once I have fiddled around with it some more.
@panolo Glad you were able to call and reach our engineer on this. You spoke with Justin and I followed up with him on your issue. Sounds like a simple situation: the knob was turned quite a ways in, which choked up the adjustment range you actually have. Backing the knob quite a ways out will solve this. He said that you would give this a try when you got back to the unit, which is currently not with you. Please follow up with me here and let me know that the issue is resolved!
Thanks for appreciating our customer service - we pride ourselves on it. We don't outsource that department, either. Justin literally sits right behind me here in our Fremont, California office. Moreover, he's also the guy in charge of the engineering. That means if something's broke, we know exactly how to fix it and/or send you replacement parts. We'll do everything in our ability to make sure you are happy with your product. That also means if, worst case scenario, somehow you're unhappy with the product or with us, we'll pay for the shipping label for you to return it to us for up to an entire year.
Just the other day, the owner of the company reminded me (he also sits right next to me), "treat our customers like family." That means even if some of you are that dumb little brother who breaks everything he touches, we're going to help you out. He meant it, not just as a company ethos, but to mean for us to be good people. We're proud that we're able to help you guys do your jobs, housework, and hobbies!
Thanks for your purchase with us, @panolo. Please let me know or give us a call if you need anything.
panolo
Seldom right...Always opinionated!
Yes I had to move the knobs out a distance and you adjust your forward by using the "-" button instead of just the knob(which doesn't move the arm forward when it is in the forward pos). I thought the knob moved the arm forward without using the button.
I don't have any true junk chains to test so I tested on a stihl chain I had bought from dealer. No worries if I ruined it since I saved 20% by buying 10 chains the last time I was in there
36 tooth stihl rs chain I had grounded a tich making the final cuts of the day so she saw some frozen dirt. Pictures kind of suck. Funny how you buy an expensive smart phone with a fancy camera that takes worse pics than the old flip phone. My depth was a little deep. I'm gonna try and get some better pics at work tomorrow.
I don't have any true junk chains to test so I tested on a stihl chain I had bought from dealer. No worries if I ruined it since I saved 20% by buying 10 chains the last time I was in there
36 tooth stihl rs chain I had grounded a tich making the final cuts of the day so she saw some frozen dirt. Pictures kind of suck. Funny how you buy an expensive smart phone with a fancy camera that takes worse pics than the old flip phone. My depth was a little deep. I'm gonna try and get some better pics at work tomorrow.Attachments
Yes I had to move the knobs out a distance and you adjust your forward by using the "-" button instead of just the knob(which doesn't move the arm forward when it is in the forward pos). I thought the knob moved the arm forward without using the button.
I don't have any true junk chains to test so I tested on a stihl chain I had bought from dealer. No worries if I ruined it since I saved 20% by buying 10 chains the last time I was in there
Glad Justin, the engineer, was able to help you. In case he didn't recommend it: watching the videos we have on the listing will help deal with 90%+ of the learning curve!
Quick tip for better cell phone pictures: try getting some good lighting on the thing you're shooting. Too little light will result in blurry shots, and too much light will "white wash" the shot. There's a Goldilocks amount, which is about the amount of light you'd see outside on a somewhat sunny day.
That is one of the technical issues, that makes this machine different than a manual grinder; some set up adjustments are manual, and some are software driven. Not 'obvious' to a new user, even if they are experienced sharpening chains!
Philbert
panolo
Seldom right...Always opinionated!
First Blood
Looks like @panolo jumped in with both feet and got started, so folks are probably waiting for an update from me. I have been taking a more deliberative approach, trying to understand the grinder.
There are some discrepancies between the Quick Start Guide, the printed manual, and the You Tube videos that I have been trying to work out, and am sending separate notes on these to Gun. But have to get started sometime!
The sharpener is 'Automatic' only once it is set up and running. If you have a chain in pretty good condition, and follow the You Tube videos (my choice), you will likely come out with a sharpened chain.
Some adjustments are made with the 3 manual knobs; you can see movement as you turn them. Some adjustments occur only after you 'Reset' the programming, so it can be a bit of surprise how much you moved something. Some adjustments appear to be linked (e.g. 'Length' and 'Pitch'), and the instructions state that you may need to go back and work on these a few times to get exactly right, but you do not get immediate, visual feedback.
As an experienced user of a manual grinder, I am used to making fine adjustments as the work progresses; it took some time and experience to develop this knowledge and skill. I may make special adjustments for a single cutter that is badly damaged, for example. With the FP1000, I have to stop the automatic process, make an adjustment, reset, and start all over.
**** I am not saying this as criticism of the automatic sharpener, as much as I am sharing my point on the learning curve using it. I expect that with time, I will be able to make more of these fine adjustments on it intuitively, just as I did with my manual grinders. ****
Started with an 84 DL, 3/8 pitch, STIHL, full chisel loop that had some uneven cutters, and a few rocked cutters. I tried to start with a light pass, but ended up taking more than expected (sorry @bark - I will find a way to make it up to you).
84 drive links took 7 minutes and 27 seconds from pressing 'Start' for a full pass. The countdown display (# of drive links remaining) is a nice feature.
This chain needed a couple of passes anyway, but the large bite ended up discoloring the underside of the point a little, so I have to go back and shave off a little more to clean that up. I backed up the cutter, lowered the wheel depth a bit, and cleaned up the gullet a little. Got too cold outside to mess with little screws, so I put off the depth gauge stuff.
Need to try this on a bunch more chains, which is why I asked to keep it for a while, rather than making a judgment on just a few loops and limited practice.
Philbert
Looks like @panolo jumped in with both feet and got started, so folks are probably waiting for an update from me. I have been taking a more deliberative approach, trying to understand the grinder.
There are some discrepancies between the Quick Start Guide, the printed manual, and the You Tube videos that I have been trying to work out, and am sending separate notes on these to Gun. But have to get started sometime!
The sharpener is 'Automatic' only once it is set up and running. If you have a chain in pretty good condition, and follow the You Tube videos (my choice), you will likely come out with a sharpened chain.
Some adjustments are made with the 3 manual knobs; you can see movement as you turn them. Some adjustments occur only after you 'Reset' the programming, so it can be a bit of surprise how much you moved something. Some adjustments appear to be linked (e.g. 'Length' and 'Pitch'), and the instructions state that you may need to go back and work on these a few times to get exactly right, but you do not get immediate, visual feedback.
As an experienced user of a manual grinder, I am used to making fine adjustments as the work progresses; it took some time and experience to develop this knowledge and skill. I may make special adjustments for a single cutter that is badly damaged, for example. With the FP1000, I have to stop the automatic process, make an adjustment, reset, and start all over.
**** I am not saying this as criticism of the automatic sharpener, as much as I am sharing my point on the learning curve using it. I expect that with time, I will be able to make more of these fine adjustments on it intuitively, just as I did with my manual grinders. ****
Started with an 84 DL, 3/8 pitch, STIHL, full chisel loop that had some uneven cutters, and a few rocked cutters. I tried to start with a light pass, but ended up taking more than expected (sorry @bark - I will find a way to make it up to you).
84 drive links took 7 minutes and 27 seconds from pressing 'Start' for a full pass. The countdown display (# of drive links remaining) is a nice feature.
This chain needed a couple of passes anyway, but the large bite ended up discoloring the underside of the point a little, so I have to go back and shave off a little more to clean that up. I backed up the cutter, lowered the wheel depth a bit, and cleaned up the gullet a little. Got too cold outside to mess with little screws, so I put off the depth gauge stuff.
Need to try this on a bunch more chains, which is why I asked to keep it for a while, rather than making a judgment on just a few loops and limited practice.
Philbert
Sample Cutters
Some of these started out as just dull, A few were rocked. And several were uneven (lengths, angles, etc.).
Before cleaning out gullet.
Before cleaning out gullet.
Cleaned gullet (single pass), but before shaving off discolored corner.
Cleaned gullet (single pass), but before shaving off discolored corner.
I am pretty sure that I can do better with a little more practice and experience, so again, please accept these as a first attempt. The discoloration of the cutter tip was likely due to unexpectedly taking off too much metal in one pass - I did not get this with other cutters when taking a light cut.
Philbert
Some of these started out as just dull, A few were rocked. And several were uneven (lengths, angles, etc.).
Before cleaning out gullet.
Before cleaning out gullet.
Cleaned gullet (single pass), but before shaving off discolored corner.
Cleaned gullet (single pass), but before shaving off discolored corner.
I am pretty sure that I can do better with a little more practice and experience, so again, please accept these as a first attempt. The discoloration of the cutter tip was likely due to unexpectedly taking off too much metal in one pass - I did not get this with other cutters when taking a light cut.
Philbert
Initial thoughts on comparison to a conventional grinder
On this grinder, I can adjust: the top plate angle, depth of cut, cutter length, depth gauges; and clean out the gullets, getting pretty uniform results. With my manual grinder, I can also adjust the top plate cutting bevel angle, degree of hook, and make compensating adjustments for individual cutters. I can also dress the thicker (1/8' or 3/16") grinding wheels for special profiles.
Right now, I am faster with my manual grinder, my experience with it makes it intuitive. But I have to stay with it for the entire loop. The FP1000 runs by itself, once set up.
For guys who are fussy and specific about their cutter angles, the FP1000 may not allow as much customization as they might like. For guys pretty satisfied with a sharp chain, and who are usually touching up normal wear, instead of rehabbing damaged chains, this could be a good time saver. If they mostly run the same pitch chains, setup should be even easier.
The small diameter, thin, fine grit wheels are more suitable for final sharpening of edges, than the coarser grit wheels available for manual grinders, which can be used to remove more material from damaged cutters, and to reshape neglected gullets. It would be real interesting to see how it works with the CBN wheels.
Philbert
On this grinder, I can adjust: the top plate angle, depth of cut, cutter length, depth gauges; and clean out the gullets, getting pretty uniform results. With my manual grinder, I can also adjust the top plate cutting bevel angle, degree of hook, and make compensating adjustments for individual cutters. I can also dress the thicker (1/8' or 3/16") grinding wheels for special profiles.
Right now, I am faster with my manual grinder, my experience with it makes it intuitive. But I have to stay with it for the entire loop. The FP1000 runs by itself, once set up.
For guys who are fussy and specific about their cutter angles, the FP1000 may not allow as much customization as they might like. For guys pretty satisfied with a sharp chain, and who are usually touching up normal wear, instead of rehabbing damaged chains, this could be a good time saver. If they mostly run the same pitch chains, setup should be even easier.
The small diameter, thin, fine grit wheels are more suitable for final sharpening of edges, than the coarser grit wheels available for manual grinders, which can be used to remove more material from damaged cutters, and to reshape neglected gullets. It would be real interesting to see how it works with the CBN wheels.
Philbert
Haywire Haywood
Fiscal Conservative Social Retard
The cbn wheel I had was pretty course, 80 grit iirc. I always wished I had a finer one for a nicer finish.
If by 'milling chains' you mean a 5° - 15° top plate angle: 'Yes'.
Some milling chains also have scoring cutters (like old style 'scratcher' chain) which would be a challenge with this grinder. Also, some milling chains are quite long. Maybe @Gun can tell us if there is a maximum number of cutters that can be programmed into the sharpener (or maybe sharpen in 2, half sequences?).
I assume that you are talking about CBN wheels for a conventional grinder? They will custom make them anyway that you want. Off the shelf, you get what they give you. Not sure what grit TEMCo chose for this unit.
Philbert
Haywire Haywood
Fiscal Conservative Social Retard
Yea, it was an off-the-shelf wheel for my NT clone.
KiwiBro
Mill 'em, nails be damned.
@Philbert is there any bias between left and right? I mean any slight differences in the depth of cut, the angles, the length of cutter? It took a fair bit of adjusting to get my manual grinder to run precisely true left to right, in terms of cutter lengths, depths of the gullet grinding, and probably the hardest to get right for me was even raker depths. There was more going on than just how well centered the chain sits when clamped.
