Bore back cut advice

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Brian VT

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Say you had a 24" bar and a 36" tree. You're going to bore and set your hinge, GOL-style.
Obviously, you'll have to bore from both sides.
I sometimes have an issue with my back cut not being level with the face notch. (The tip of the bar is closer to the ground than the saw end of the bar.)
Am I correct in thinking that it would be better to only bore in 1/2 the depth of the tree from each side rather than going full bar depth from one side, in case I'm tilted a bit ?
Any tips for staying level ? I've been thinking about sticking one of those camper levels on my starter cover. :alien2:
 
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Like anything else Brian, it takes practice. I have bored a couple leaners, but mainly I cut straight through the back cut. Even in trees bigger than my 32-34 in bar, even if I have to double cut, keep wedges tight, you can even cut up one side at times, and the go like hell through the off side, uncut side. You can also get a good book for reference, if you dont have an experienced hand to help. Douglas dents book gets into boring. My favorite book is the fundamentals of general tree work. Great book for anyone. There was no reference, when those guy's started they compiled a wealth of knowledge, of anything you may encounter.
 
What are you boring? Is it necessary? Thinking the tree will 'chair? There are other ways to do backcuts without boring.

This was provided by the Gary Goo Lube Company (Limited)

CoosBay11.jpg
 
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Good stuff Randy, I was hoping you would show. I have bored some heavy leaners, smaller in diameter a time or two, but not much. Seems like the europeans do it the most. Seen it adveertised Soren erickson game of logging, and my 51 husky I bought in 98, came with a safety, maintenace vid it showed bore cutting. But I also notice they use real short bars. Im with you I think it can be avoided.
 
Thanks guys.
It's not a leaner but the crown looks pretty heavy on the face side. I just figured a bore would be the best way to avoid a chair. You're probably right, though. The T or Triangle, then cut fast.
 
Here are two videos I made of a maple with all of the trunk's lean and the crown going to the right. I face it to go pretty much exactly where it was leaning, as I had cleared out all of the trees in its path prior to this drop.

This first video shows me cutting it off.


Here is the explaination of the cuts.


If it doesn't make sense, we can discuss it further.

Sam
 
Nice videos. I like to see what other cutters do and try to learn from it. Then you can apply different techniques to different situations and even different species of trees. That said I don't think I'd invest much in saw dust. For the few seconds it takes to set a wedge its worth it. It will gain you time by the end of the day.
 
Nice videos. I like to see what other cutters do and try to learn from it. Then you can apply different techniques to different situations and even different species of trees. That said I don't think I'd invest much in saw dust. For the few seconds it takes to set a wedge its worth it. It will gain you time by the end of the day.

Thank you, on the videos.


As to the sawdust deal, another cutter and I have noticed this handy little helper called sawdust in the cut, and in those few seconds that you would be getting your wedge in, I would already be out of the back and watching it fall over, as shown in the video. It does work to either slow down a pinch or stop compression enough so that with an in and out stroke to reclean out the cut, and then you are back to cutting.

In all honesty, this sawdust thing was shown to me by Bert, and he does not carry wedges, and it is extremely rare that he gets pinched, as in days and days before he gets pinched, cutting and topping, and he is a really fast cutter one of the top two in production, I know of, and every stump will be low and clean.

Notice how those chips are easily 1/2" or more sometimes 3/4" thick after the tree goes over, they spring up that much, they take up space and additionally, if you are back boring and very few chips are coming out on a 3/8" kerf, they are essentially taking up nearly the same space as before, minus the bar. Not saying for everyone to go back barring every cut just to keep saw chips in the cut, but it does work and in instances just like that tree right there, it had a lot of weight on one side, and it was dropped just a quick and safely as if it was standing up straight.

In this bottom timber that I cut, probably 1/2 of the trees I cut have a bad lean to them, pretty much just cut them like that and its not too exciting, which is a good thing.

I can see how that T and V cut might work on smaller diameter softwood where you can cut fast toward the hinge, before it barber chairs, but in most any wood that I have logged, they would not work consistently, especially that V cut, which would only work on a tree that was no bigger than the length of your bar or you couldn't cut the whole hinge as it was falling over, well if you are cutting a tree that small, it is obviously easier to just stand on one side and make your face cut and just bore through and out the back, 3 cuts, and at anytime if something was to happen and you had to stop or saw quits or anything, you can stop and your not having to speed cut to the hinge, while the tree is falling over.

Below is a video of how a bore cut can be set up and ready to go and I can stop mess around with a video camera or let a skidder go by or wait for another cutter to drop something and then get out of the way of your tree. I have setup 5+ trees before with little wind and just left a little more meat on the back strap, then after whatever situation that made me me have to wait was over, I just walk from tree to tree tripping the "back latch" and other than a little walking time, I have lost little to no production time.
This tree wanted to fall halfway between where it did fall and the camera. There was vines and branches that I didn't know if they were "loaded" or not against the trunk, so if I was T or V cutting it, I would have had to stand right next to it "racing" toward the hinge and therefore wouldn't have been 30feet away from it when it did go over. I truly don't see how the T or V is safer than the properly executed bore cut, and it isn't any faster, so while I see them as tools to know, I'm can't see many or any situations where I would pull them out of the tool bag to use over the bore cut.


Sam
 
Here's this from our held in SW Warshington GOL class. The instructor, who is cutting, is from Wisconsin.
We really tried to teach him to pronounce Oregon properly. We failed.

[video=youtube_share;OF12435Sckw]http://youtu.be/OF12435Sckw[/video]
 
Here's this from our held in SW Warshington GOL class. The instructor, who is cutting, is from Wisconsin.
We really tried to teach him to pronounce Oregon properly. We failed.

I have never understood the reason behind taking the bar out of the last boring cut and then going either above or below and making a whole new cut. It is slow for that reason and now you have to trim the butt log off. Not to mention the stump looks like someone doesn't know how to cut a tree down.

At those GOL classes do they give a reason for cutting the last cut higher or lower than just flush with the rest of things. What is the advantage, as it just provides another situation where, like in this video, you don't know what is holding the tree up or from going over.

Sam
 
I appreciate what you have to say and understand what you mean with the saw dust bed. If that is what works for you guys thats fine. I've cut side by side with 25-30 year cutters that use a wedge very little and don't carry hammers. Even the best get pinched in preventable situations trying to gain a few seconds. All it takes is a slight miss judgement. Then it may cost you minutes instead of seconds. I don't use a wedge all the time either. But if you have the slightest doubt or wind it is worth the time.One of the most productive cutters in my area is known to wear two wedge pouches.
As far as jigging trees goes be very careful. Always think about where the skidder is going to be and the operator if you run cable skidders. I know a guy that got killed doing just that. He had it already to go and sat down for lunch. That was that. You just never know.
 
Like anything else Brian, it takes practice. I have bored a couple leaners, but mainly I cut straight through the back cut. Even in trees bigger than my 32-34 in bar, even if I have to double cut, keep wedges tight, you can even cut up one side at times, and the go like hell through the off side, uncut side. You can also get a good book for reference, if you dont have an experienced hand to help. Douglas dents book gets into boring. My favorite book is the fundamentals of general tree work. Great book for anyone. There was no reference, when those guy's started they compiled a wealth of knowledge, of anything you may encounter.
Thank you for the book reference, it's one I would like to have. I see Baileys has it.
 
I have never understood the reason behind taking the bar out of the last boring cut and then going either above or below and making a whole new cut. It is slow for that reason and now you have to trim the butt log off. Not to mention the stump looks like someone doesn't know how to cut a tree down.

At those GOL classes do they give a reason for cutting the last cut higher or lower than just flush with the rest of things. What is the advantage, as it just provides another situation where, like in this video, you don't know what is holding the tree up or from going over.

Sam

First, before the old arguments start, GOL is NOT a production cutting course. It is more of a safety class. No way would this work on every tree in a logging situation.

The reason for varying the heights of the back strap is to control the speed of the fall. A short cut results in a faster fall, longer is slower. I haven't had a chance to try this out. I may not ever. I am not a faller.

Here is the stump. The tree did not go according to the original plan. It had more decay in it than he figured. That is a real life scenario...
207288d1321370077-gol-stump0001-jpg




I have used Gary's Coos Bay Cut on ONE hard leaner, and it worked. It worked beautifully. I've used a bore cut a couple of times and it also worked wonderfully.
View attachment 207288
 
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I'm not against the use of wedges at all. Just showing a handy little trick that few know about and it does work.

Yeah, I don't think I would stop and eat lunch under anything I had cut on, LOL.

Sam
 
Kinda scary watching that GOL guy stand straight behind the tree. Looks like he got a bit startled too. LOL. Just shows ya how fast stuff happens. He flinched, but certainly didn't have time to do anything more than that if it had gone bad.
 
These guys are production cutters, and were spending a lot of time to keep this small tree from hitting the road. The yarding equipment was not in the area to pull it out of the road. The road is one of the two major forest roads here--it goes up to the access roads to Mt. St Helens.

The guy doing the talking is what they call, "A Hell of a Good Faller". He has a bad hip but was out there in case a car came along. He still does the occasional old growth hazard tree.

Note all the wedging being done to keep the tree off the road. It was also towards the end of their work day.

[video=youtube_share;CJWn5qd36ys]http://youtu.be/CJWn5qd36ys[/video]
 
I have never understood the reason behind taking the bar out of the last boring cut and then going either above or below and making a whole new cut.

My understanding is that on the smaller trees, a split-level cut allows you to get a wedge in where you would otherwise be unable. It looks silly for normal cutting, but I can see its use pushing a 10-incher against its lean.
 
First, before the old arguments start, GOL is NOT a production cutting course. It is more of a safety class. No way would this work on every tree in a logging situation.

The reason for varying the heights of the back strap is to control the speed of the fall. A short cut results in a faster fall, longer is slower. I haven't had a chance to try this out. I may not ever. I am not a faller.

That doesn't make any sense to me, how cutting it higher or lower makes for a faster or slower fall, gravity is gravity and 5000+ pounds above the hinge would sure seem like it would have a lot more to do with the speed of the fall, than 6" high or 12" low or dead even on tripping the backstrap.

I'm not arguing with you Slowp, just thinking outloud. Thanks for the explaination as I have never understood the reason behind making a stump or butt look so bad, as what he just did in that video, and even though I do bore cut, I learned it from guys that cut, went to the GOL classes and then used some of the "tricks" for quicker cutting, but not so much with the wedges, and my impression, has always been that it was for safety of the upmost, and not production, which is a good way of showing it. That way, experienced cutters can take away from it what they want and apply it to their needs, but the average Joe, at least sees a relatively consistent safe way of getting a tree down.

I mean, if it was me, after he stopped and looked around to make sure everyone was at a safe distance and all was clear, why not just motor on out the back. To me if this tree was leaning........... he was standing there cutting it in the dumbest of locations ............ directly in the back, where it could possibly slip off the stump backwards and "get'em". Seems odd.

Sam
 
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Not saying that I never go to the low/off side of a tree to make a cut, but I think it is important to at least learn or practice in the right situations how to make all of your cuts (whichever method your using) from the upper side of the tree. Especially talking about trees that are bigger dia. than your bar length. It becomes obvious real quick in steep ground and is a big safety + when it has widowmakers to be able to make all of your cuts from the upper (safe side).
 
So...back to the op about my not always keeping the bar level.
Is it maybe not too critical as long as I keep everything above the notch ? Any tips for staying level or should I go ahead and put the bubble level on ? LOL
 

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