Climbing leaning trees that are nearly horizontal at the top

[SemperFiSawguy]

So i have a little over 2 years of commercial tree climbing experience. I own my own bussiness and do this everyday.
I live in SE MN, we have the bluff country down here and subsequently alot of homes along steep terrain. To go with this people build homes on the edges of the forest and the trees following the natural tendency for phototropism chase the light in the clearing enough to nearly be horizontal. Often times with nothing above them as a tie in point which makes conventional limb walking impossible. Most of the time for removals i am stuck climbing as high as i can with gaffs, and then awkardly crawling sloth style out onto the tops of these trees to negative rig them with an X ring located further back to allow for compression loading of the trunk as straight up and down as possible. Unfortunately, this is a time consuming, nerve racking endeavor. And my two lanyards become my lifelines. Short of a spider lift, (someday ill get one). Is there a better way? Im getting my ass kicked on these and i run into them frequently. Im entirely self taught in all of this, i dont work with other climbers as i am one of 2 in the whole area i service. Ill post a picture of one i can draw up as a reference to give a better idea of what im struggling with.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Here is a horribly drawn rough sketch of what im dealing with on this job im doing Monday. Tree is a shagbark hickory.

 

[jefflovstrom]

I am going to wait wait to reply because I am tired and irritable after a long day, but one thing I am curious about is in your signature, you call yourself a 'Tree Surgeon',,are you?,
Jeff,
It was a beautiful tiring day!

 

[KarlD]

I feel your pain. I have occasionally come across these turds and there is seemingly never an adjacent top anchor available.
I’ve dismantled two of note. The first one I used long slings for extra footholds, about 100mm below the branch and slowly walked my way out one sling at a time. The slings for my feet combined with my frontal anchor created a nice balanced triple anchor. Slow but easy and a simple case of reversal of procedure on the way back.
The last time I did one I created my own top anchor by securing a scaffold pole to the tree. This led to a lovely top anchor but was super slow. The tree was big and gnarly and hanging over a property so high value and worth the effort.
I’ll be following this to see what other more experienced guys come up with

 

[KarlD]

It was a beautiful tiring day!

Don’t you just love the drive home after a challenging day? Especially when the job is finished and the customers are happy, all tidy, tools needing a small clean and service, radio on with a nice cold drink. Awesome

 

[Bearcreek]

Here is a horribly drawn rough sketch of what im dealing with on this job im doing Monday. Tree is a shagbark hickory.

What's the diameter?

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

What's the diameter?

At the base, no more then 16 inches in diameter. The top is more more then 2, mid length is around 8 inches.

 

[Bearcreek]

At the base, no more then 16 inches in diameter. The top is more more then 2, mid length is around 8 inches.

Pull it backwards maybe? Shag hickory hinges extremely well.

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Pull it backwards maybe? Shag hickory hinges extremely well.

I thought about it, but its extremly thick at the wood edge and when it reach its over center point it would get snagged.

 

[Bearcreek]

I thought about it, but its extremly thick at the wood edge and when it reach its over center point it would get snagged.

I see. Can't get a lift close enough?

 

[SemperFiSawguy]

Its a 60% slope and i dont own a lift, climber only. Im too poor for a spider lift, wish i had one!!

 

[old CB]

I once was in a similar situation--was removing a Doug fir leaning over a house. Removed all the limbs going up and was inching toward the point where I could cut the top free (had it rigged to be pulled away from the house by my ground guy), but its small diameter and its leaning, nearly horizontal situation made me bail on the remaining part of the job. The guy who did the final work (a good deal smaller and lighter weight guy than me) said it made him nervous too.

Since then I've developed another strategy for such situations. Get the top ready to break, in other words make an undercut and felling cut just short of breaking point, then return to the ground & pull the top, force the break, with a previously set rope.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Any higher tree support available within 30 degrees drop line?
>>or 2 slightly more spread trees etc.?
.
Can try throwline to high strong against lean for bracing, then tie each leg down against lean with some stabilizing spread.
>>don't hit 'guy lines'
Best to have tightening mech. on 1 end to take up slack as weight is removed from lean side and angle relieves.
>>after tighten on 1 side , sweat other side some to equalize pressure over from the now tighter leg thru the supported tree's frictions buffer (contact point)
>>still would avoid negative rig especially w/o run to ground impact
cut lean side weight first, saving any rear pulling weight as ballast
Spread 3 point contact for self to different branches>> even sometimes laying across branch(es)
Can walk backwards leaning back away from center spar tie in
>>at extremes position feets or foot loops so rope pulls you low into horizontal branch length as firmer support and not so much across
>>in some positions can bend knees, lanyard under branch standing on, then tighten legs hard upwards against lanyard for stability, but still want other tie in(s).
.
@ true 60 degrees lean(?) cosine column of support is = .5, sine is = .8666
>>this means need 2x normal support for cosine/columnsine single dimension support upward against gravity single dimension forces downward
>>while the sideForce of sine for non single dimension forces is GREATER than the downward support column forces (.86 side force > .5 support column force)
just by the numbers, starting very upside down!
Then multiplied input force into same formula for the movement/impacts
In E=MCsquared
>>the CoG x geometry of length, angle is the M (static)
>>the Csquared is the (dynamic movement) >> very much more significant multiplier
.
If static hold hammer parallel to common pound scale and press down, the closer hammer head to hand, the more pressure on scale
>>arm is power input, head farther away is less leverage, diluted force over more distance
BUT , swing hammer, head moves FASTER than hand/arm, the farther out head is out on the arc made
>>the IMPACT is greater, that is the Csquared factor change, from the faster moving head
>>even tho statically is less force with hammer head further out, it is all overwritten by the speed in total effect!
that is the Csquared factor
>>increased distance , reducing static leverage; put into movement in 1 time slice becomes now speed factor of greater volatility.
.
Formulae is so true persists into electronics
total watts power = Resistance(weight carried against change over distance) x AMPS squared (speed of voltage, squared)
W=RAsquared.
E=MCsquared
Thus is the AMPS/speed that kills more, has greater impact on shituation, wherever you go into forces..

 

[miko0618]

Can you pull the top back over? Ir over at an angle? I understand the whole tree will hang up but is there room for the top?

Some times its not worth your life. So the tree may fall on their house, fix the house. Or put plywood on the roof and send pieces down small. I have literally hung under one like that and roped it back to the trunk. Just have to have the rope on the other side of you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[capetrees]

Can you pull the top back over? Ir over at an angle? I understand the whole tree will hang up but is there room for the top?

Some times its not worth your life. So the tree may fall on their house, fix the house. Or put plywood on the roof and send pieces down small. I have literally hung under one like that and roped it back to the trunk. Just have to have the rope on the other side of you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yup, been there.

Any chance of roping 3/4 to the top or so and offset the rope to an adjacent tree to swing away from the house and let it down under control along side of the house?

 

[ATH]

Thought of this thread when I saw that video.

 

[pdqdl]

Its a 60% slope and i dont own a lift, climber only. Im too poor for a spider lift, wish i had one!!

Spider lift would never touch 60% anyway. As I recall, their literature claims 28%, and that is still pretty steep for a lift.

 

[JeffTheTreeGuy]

Can you set up a speed line?