Ford Super Duty with the 5.4L

[builder1101]

It's about gearing, transmission and suspension; which are all much more important than how powerful the engine is.

I have a 2004 F-150 4x4 with 5.4 three valve, and the standard 3.55 rear end. The truck has an electric brake controller which, IMHO, is absolutely necessary if you're pulling anything more than an ATV.

Here is a problem I recently had while towing way over the recommended limit. At the time, I didn't have anything heavier duty to tow my JD 2355 with. I have a 5 ton, 18 ft. trailer, and the tractor will fit on it just barely if I take one fender off the trailer. The trailer weighs about 2500 lbs. empty and the tractor and mower weigh close to 10,000 lbs. That's over 12,000 gross, and it's much more than the truck was intended to pull. However, beggers can't be choosers, so I very slowly and carefully moved my tractor several times. The truck pulled it and stopped without issue but I avoided fast starts and stops. However, the last time I moved the rig I noticed the tranny seemed to be slipping. I checked the fluid and, sure enough, it was burned and smelled bad I have, so far, had the fluid changed twice, but on the new Fords you just can't get all the old trans fluid out, so it still looks dark and smells bad. I will keep doing this until it clears up, but it's obvious the drivetrain just can't take that kind of load.

The good news is that the truck is performing perfectly now with no apparent damage to the tranny. I won't pull anything that heavy again, and I just recently got a F-550 with 4.88 rear end, 7.3 powerstroke and auto trans. It has 192,000 miles on it and a tool body/bucket to haul around as well, but it will pull most anything.

My advice is to avoid any "half ton" truck if you are going to haul over 5000 lbs on a regular basis, and, if you get a 3/4 ton be very careful of what rear end ratio it has. I noticed , with horror, that some of the brand new, so-called HD trucks have 3.55 rear ends ! NO GOOD ! Get at least a 3.73 and better yet a 4.10 for pulling. Your truck will perform much better and will last much longer even at the expense of poorer fuel economy.

Just my 2 cents worth.

manual gear box! i've towed 12k# quite often in overdrive, foot to the floor. Few times 15k#. 373's.... 220k miles later still have yet to find anything on the magnet....

if it's got fluid, your gonna have to be doing some hardcore wild things to tear it up. automatics are so troublesome, and a million things to go wrong...

clutches, pump, 1way bearings, fluid pressures, pistons, check valves, plumbing to the front of the truck for tranny cooling, opens up doors for 'remote' leaks, now thehy're electronic, so now solenoids are in play, digital speedometers, the list continues....

not to mention manual clutches are a fraction of the cost of an automatic rebuild if it's DIY.... I paid less money to buy a clutch then it would cost to have a shop remove an automatic, before repairs! rarely shops will warranty if they rebuild and you remove/install.

 

[dustytools]

Ok I know it aint new!! and it aint a SC, but man this thing is a worker..and since we are talkin trucks and showin off our rides I figured I'd share. I've had this beauty since 2001 and got it at a steal for $1800.

88 f250 5.8L 4x4 with 5spd manual ( granny low and overdrive ). The ac works..roll the windows down ( maually! ) and the heat works..all the time and the fan is rewired to a lighted toggle for high speed only. The radio has been in 3 different vehicles and still goin strong.
The best thing, I don't worry about scratchin it up in the brush!
Modifications include custom paint job and bucket seats with fold down center console from a 94, complete with lumbar adjustment ( I've had this set up for at least 3 years, some day I'll hook up the lumbar part ).

Here is a pic of another old work horse. 86 F-150 4X4 with a 300 in front of a 4 speed bulldog tranny. Best $400 I ever spent.View attachment 117039

 

[slinger]

Hauling legal GVW TRUCK + TRAILER LOADS MY '05 SD 5.4 torqshift long bed super cab 2wd limited slip never really lacks for reasonable power. Not a torque monster or an overlly impressive, somethin to brag about truck.

Mine is your basic work truck I bought it new as contractor to work and that's what it really is...a basic work truck.

If I would of had an additional 5400 bucks I would have got the diesel. but what I wound up with is fine.

The GM 3/4 ton trucks I had in the past rode nicer and handled nicer on the road.

This one handles off road better for a 2wd. Stuck alot less than with my Jimmy 2wd.

 

[clinchscavalry]

manual gear box! i've towed 12k# quite often in overdrive, foot to the floor. Few times 15k#. 373's.... 220k miles later still have yet to find anything on the magnet....

if it's got fluid, your gonna have to be doing some hardcore wild things to tear it up. automatics are so troublesome, and a million things to go wrong...

clutches, pump, 1way bearings, fluid pressures, pistons, check valves, plumbing to the front of the truck for tranny cooling, opens up doors for 'remote' leaks, now thehy're electronic, so now solenoids are in play, digital speedometers, the list continues....

not to mention manual clutches are a fraction of the cost of an automatic rebuild if it's DIY.... I paid less money to buy a clutch then it would cost to have a shop remove an automatic, before repairs! rarely shops will warranty if they rebuild and you remove/install.

Can't get manual trannys in many new trucks now. My '04 didn't offer one. I agree about the manual transmissions too; that's all I had until they quit making them.

As I said, it's all about the "guts" in a truck. Think about tractors or dozers - relatively little horsepower but everything else is HD. Or muscle cars ? How would a 400 HP Mustang pull a 10,000 trailer ? Not very well I venture

 

[John D]

Can't get manual trannys in many new trucks now. My '04 didn't offer one. I agree about the manual transmissions too; that's all I had until they quit making them.

As I said, it's all about the "guts" in a truck. Think about tractors or dozers - relatively little horsepower but everything else is HD. Or muscle cars ? How would a 400 HP Mustang pull a 10,000 trailer ? Not very well I venture

Yes not many manuals left.The good part is though,the autos today have better gearing,very close ratios with 5 and 6 speed autos,and the transmissions are much heavier duty than those of the past.The reason the manuals aren't offered in part, is the new autos are so strong ,refined,and the gearing spread is equal to or better than the old hand shakers with deep low,so everyone wants the autos,the few who dont dont make it worth offering,as emisisons testing is expensive,and manuals need to be tested separately from auto trucks,which is $$$.

 

[KMB]

manual gear box! i've towed 12k# quite often in overdrive, foot to the floor. Few times 15k#. 373's.... 220k miles later still have yet to find anything on the magnet....

if it's got fluid, your gonna have to be doing some hardcore wild things to tear it up. automatics are so troublesome, and a million things to go wrong...

clutches, pump, 1way bearings, fluid pressures, pistons, check valves, plumbing to the front of the truck for tranny cooling, opens up doors for 'remote' leaks, now thehy're electronic, so now solenoids are in play, digital speedometers, the list continues....

not to mention manual clutches are a fraction of the cost of an automatic rebuild if it's DIY.... I paid less money to buy a clutch then it would cost to have a shop remove an automatic, before repairs! rarely shops will warranty if they rebuild and you remove/install.

Yes not many manuals left.The good part is though,the autos today have better gearing,very close ratios with 5 and 6 speed autos,and the transmissions are much heavier duty than those of the past.The reason the manuals aren't offered in part, is the new autos are so strong ,refined,and the gearing spread is equal to or better than the old hand shakers with deep low,so everyone wants the autos,the few who dont dont make it worth offering,as emisisons testing is expensive,and manuals need to be tested separately from auto trucks,which is $$$.

A manual tranny would be just fine. In looking online at autotrader.com and cars.com, most of the trucks that interest me are in auto...and tend to be at least a 150 miles away. So when the time comes, I might have to travel a bit to get exactly (or close to) what I want.

Kevin

 

[builder1101]

Can't get manual trannys in many new trucks now. My '04 didn't offer one. I agree about the manual transmissions too; that's all I had until they quit making them.

As I said, it's all about the "guts" in a truck. Think about tractors or dozers - relatively little horsepower but everything else is HD. Or muscle cars ? How would a 400 HP Mustang pull a 10,000 trailer ? Not very well I venture

few months ago i read somewhere ford is going to discontinue manuals in the 2010 line f150's.... under 1% were ordered in the '09s...i think i have the years correct?

I bet that mustang would show some action before it gave up

 

[headleyj]

most of the general public is lazy....IMO that's why we don't have as many manual trannies as we used to.

 

[clinchscavalry]

What used to be interesting to me when I was shopping for a new truck was that the towing capacities for a half ton pickup were only shown for vehicles equipped with automatic transmissions. I remember looking at trucks at far back as '87 and the GMC I bought with four speed, granny gear, manual was not rated for towing at all.

When I questioned the salesman about it, he said the problem was that so many people didn't know how to operate a clutch properly, and when a vehicle took on the extra strain of pulling a trailer the clutch naturally failed with these idiot drivers. Then he went on to say "you should get an automatic if you intend to tow a lot".

I said then what I say now. If an auto is so good at handling heavy loads then whey don't all the 18 wheeler trucks have them ?

It's a warranty issue with the manufacturers, IMHO. They know the normal pickup buyer today can't properly operate a manual tranny, and their number crunchers calculate the extra cost of warranty repairs, so they just offer autos only.

What kills an automatic transmission is starting off with a really heavy load. There's a lot of heat, pressure,slippage and wear, especially if the operator has a lead foot. A word of warning to those of you who put "chips" on these fancy new diesels to get 500 HP. That's fine as long as you don't stress the drive train with jackrabbit starts. All that HP is useless with gears made for considerably less.

A manual, on the other hand, can be eased off from a standstill with proper technique if a low enough first is available, and there is little wear and tear. Of course, no one needs to get in a big hurry when trailering a heavy load (or no load for that matter). Starting slowly and stopping slowly saves equipment and fuel

 

[wood4heat]

most of the general public is lazy....IMO that's why we don't have as many manual trannies as we used to.

It's not about being lazy it's about multitasking, too hard to shift and text at the same time.

 

[headleyj]

I said then what I say now. If an auto is so good at handling heavy loads then whey don't all the 18 wheeler trucks have them ?

Exactly. Some new ones are AT's though. driving a stick will be a lost art in a generation or 2 I bet.

 

[KMB]

Of course, no one needs to get in a big hurry when trailering a heavy load (or no load for that matter). Starting slowly and stopping slowly saves equipment and fuel

:agree2: +10

Kevin

 

[KMB]

I'm in a Super Duty but it's not a truck. It's an Excursion. 4x4, V10, 4.30:1 gears. Pulls like a champ. 7.5 - 8.5 mpg pulling up to 14k lbs, about 9 mpg pulling 7,000 - 8,000 lbs, 11-12 empty in town, and about 13 hwy empty.

It will pull anything you want to put behind it. I had it on the scale at the saw mill at 32,620 lbs!

All in all, I think I'd rather have the V10 instead of the 5.4 and I'd get as much gear as you can find. 4.10:1 or 4.30:1 for any amount of towing.

I was again thinking about your Excursion with the 4.30 gears and wondering about rpm's in regards to the mph. If you do watch rpm's, what does your Excursion do at 60 mph and up to 70-75 mph?

Kevin

 

[builder1101]

Exactly. Some new ones are AT's though. driving a stick will be a lost art in a generation or 2 I bet.

still i don't think some are true automatics...i may be wrong. i vouch anything with a torque converter is an automatic maybe it's gonna be classed different....

some of the volvos and mercedes, it's still manual, just the computer does the shifting. In detail, you choose when to shift, computer decides what gear to use. youtube has lots of videos of them in action. Weird though, there's still a stick shift, but push of a button then it's 'automatic'....

 

[gr8scott72]

I was again thinking about your Excursion with the 4.30 gears and wondering about rpm's in regards to the mph. If you do watch rpm's, what does your Excursion do at 60 mph and up to 70-75 mph?

Kevin

 

[KMB]

gr8scott72,

Sooo attt abouttt 6555 itsss turninggg abouttt 2300....

My dial-up might be making the pic look blurrier than it really is...and yes I know it would be hard to get a steady pic as you're driving down the road .

Thanks. I think I've narrowed it down to what to look for in my next truck.

Kevin

 

[gr8scott72]

gr8scott72,

Sooo attt abouttt 6555 itsss turninggg abouttt 2300....

My dial-up might be making the pic look blurrier than it really is...and yes I know it would be hard to get a steady pic as you're driving down the road .

Dial-up? What's that? opcorn:

No, it's a blurry picture but going 65 mph while trying to get a good picture can be a chore plus it was starting to get dark outside which also leads to blurry pictures with my camera unless held perfectly still.

How's this for a speedo shot:

Thanks. I think I've narrowed it down to what to look for in my next truck.

Kevin

V8 or V10 with 4.30:1 gears right?

 

[KMB]

Dial-up? What's that? opcorn:

No, it's a blurry picture but going 65 mph while trying to get a good picture can be a chore plus it was starting to get dark outside which also leads to blurry pictures with my camera unless held perfectly still.

V8 or V10 with 4.30:1 gears right?

Yep, dial-up. I'm out in the sticks. Can't afford satellite. I'll be giving mobile broadband through Verizon when I'm able.

So what vehicle has that speedo?

Yep, so far the Ford V10 with the 4.30's...F250 or F350, it doesn't matter. As far as some specs I found, the F350 has about 1000 lbs. more payload rating which would mean I could possibly put 2/3 cord in the box.

In shooting for an approx. 12,000 lb. trailer rating, the other big gasser that has my interest is the 2001 (and up) GM V8 8.1L HD. I have read that it drinks more fuel than the V10, 6.8L...I'm sure someone will come along to dispel that....

In a Dodge, 2003 ('crew cab' Quad Cab) has the V10 8.0L. Then from 2004 it's gone (from what I found/read) in the 2500, 3500.

It will most likely be the Ford because I will be able to go back as far as 1999 for what I would want.

BTW, do you know if your Excursion has a limited-slip rearend? And do you know how to tell the difference...VIN #?

Kevin

 

[John D]

In shooting for an approx. 12,000 lb. trailer rating, the other big gasser that has my interest is the GM V8 8.1L HD. I have read that it drinks more fuel than the V10, 6.8L...I'm sure someone will come along to dispel that....


Kevin

I have friends with the Ford V10.I think my 8.1 may use a little more around town,they are very close though.The 8.1 is a bigger engine,and has more torque down low,hands down.It will hold high gear longer,and pull easier in the higher gears. The V10 Ford is a 10 cylinder,but it is still a small block,so it does rev better than the 8.1,and it shows its advantage with RPM,overall they are very close,the Ford wins higher in the RPM band,the GM down low.Id buy either one.One thing the 8.1 has is an Allison auto,big advantage there until 05 with the torqueshift became available on the Ford,even then,the Allison is the more reliable unit.

 

[jerryw66]

on ford differentials

on the data tag inside the door, where ti says axle, if it is just a number, it's an open dif, such as "9", if it were H9 as is my expedition, then it is limited slip, ford has used a system like this for many years, I don't know the gear ratio, in respect to this number, but the ratios are on a tag on the dif itself. H9 is 3.55 at least for an exp. and they only put limited slips in the rear dif. I think on the ford truck enthusiasts forum, you can find all the ratios, and imfo, I believe the ninth digit in the vin code, tells the axle ratio too, not sure though.