Grinding square-ground chain

[HandLogger]

I realize that it's risky to ask this, but which type of chain is easier to sharpen with a grinder: square-ground or round?

I'm asking because we've put a lot of valuable time into hand-filing and the results, although good on occasion, just don't justify the time spent to get them. To save time, in the past, we've taken our full chisel chain loops to our local Stihl dealer to have them ground on their USG, but the results are often less than expected.

So ... instead of putting yet another order in for more new RSC chain$, I'm wondering if a grinder -- set up for square-grinding -- is more consistent than the common round grinder. In another words, is there any advantage to grinding square over grinding round? We own and manage forest land, so chains are an expensive reality for us. I don't mind investing in well-made tools -- as long as the results are consistent.

Any productive thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[kamikaze]

I have no clue..... but am interested to hear the answer

 

[lmbrman]

I have no experience square grinding, and look forward to the responses here. I will mention that having figured out to sharpen with a file OK, and kinda getting the knack of an oregon 511ax, I wish I had purchased a new silvey square grinder right away.

just my .02

 

[parrisw]

There is nothing wrong with round filed, or round ground chain, learn how to do it properly, and you'll be happy. Paying someone to sharpen a chain is a total waste of money. I use a cheaper Northern Tool grinder and it works great with a few mods. But I can also hand file as well, and get it nice and sharp.

 

[Philbert]

I have never used square ground chain. I understand that there are fewer grinders capable of doing this, notably the Silvey grinders, which cost quite a bit more than the Oregon 511A type grinders. People seem to be happy with them, based on comments posted here on A.S.

I assume that once you get it set up, and learn how to use it, it won't take you any longer to grind one or the other in a practical sense. As far as reliability and consistency, you would want to compare the Silvey round tooth grinders against their square tooth ones. Comparing the Silvey round tooth grinders against the Oregon type grinders would be a different question (i.e. 'who makes the best round tooth grinder').

The square tooth vs round tooth, and chisel vs semi-chisel debates come down to preference and the type(s) of cutting that you do. If you like the way your saws perform with the square ground chains, and are willing to invest in the grinder, it seems like an easy choice.

JMHO

Philbert

 

[adam32]

I have a round grinder (TSC special) and a Silvey SDM-4. You can sharpen a chain much faster with the round grinder, it takes me a while to get the SDM-4 set up and then it just takes longer per tooth. The SDM-4 will DEFINITELY make a sharper tooth, but I'm sure it wouldn't last as long out cutting all day. Round is way easier to grind, set up, and wheels are cheaper. The square wheels don't last very long for me, but I re-shape them a lot to make sure they cut a consistent tooth. If I was you, I'd go buy a TSC special and try it out, if you like it them great! If not you're only out about $150...

 

[mdavlee]

I've never used a round grinder so I don't know how hard they are to set up. A swing arm is pretty simple and you can go through a chain pretty fast with one. I was thinking it was less than 10 minutes for a 93 dl full comp chain. The razor sharp is slower than the swing arm and i've not tried a sdm-4 or pro sharp.

 

[John D]

Just take your time and try a husqvarna file guide....for 3/8 " chain its blue anodized....you can get it in a kit at TSC or your husqvarna dealer ...until I bought it I used my northern tool grinder ...now I'd rather use the husqvarna guide and a sharp file from Bailey's .....it took me a while to figure it out ....now I got my dad doing it too after 20yrs of sending his chains to be sharpened he's now filing with the husqvarna file/guide ...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[J.W Younger]

I realize that it's risky to ask this, but which type of chain is easier to sharpen with a grinder: square-ground or round?

I'm asking because we've put a lot of valuable time into hand-filing and the results, although good on occasion, just don't justify the time spent to get them. To save time, in the past, we've taken our full chisel chain loops to our local Stihl dealer to have them ground on their USG, but the results are often less than expected.

So ... instead of putting yet another order in for more new RSC chain$, I'm wondering if a grinder -- set up for square-grinding -- is more consistent than the common round grinder. In another words, is there any advantage to grinding square over grinding round? We own and manage forest land, so chains are an expensive reality for us. I don't mind investing in well-made tools -- as long as the results are consistent.

Any productive thoughts are much appreciated.

I can't say on the grinding ques but know I perfer cutting with square to round. I also use semi chisel and it has to be filed or ground round and even tho I have a grinder it is mostly filed. Semi or chisel tho, it will save a lot of time and cutter if you resharpen before it stops cutting because when it does a lot of cutter has be be taken off to get the top plate flat all the way to the point. There are things out of your control tho such as rocks or metal and others running you saws. Even when I rock one tho it don,t take any longer to file it than it does to grind. This may not be the case with square tho, it takes me a little longer to file it than round but the grinders are so expensive it doubtfull if i'll be buying one any time soon.

 

[Trx250r180]

if your question which is easier id have to say round is ,but i think its worth the extra time to learn square as its much smoother in the cut and not so grabby,if you buy a square grinder once you learn the angles its not bad to sharpen ,you will be left with pointy gullets though with square ,most saw shops leave them ,i grind them out with my round chain grinder after a couple sharpenings ,you can remove them with a round file but takes a lot longer

 

[HandLogger]

Tsc

Thanks for the replies, folks. I look forward to reading more about this as the day goes on.

One question comes to mind right away, though. Is "TSC" an acronym for Tractor Supply Company?

 

[adam32]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I look forward to reading more about this as the day goes on.

One question comes to mind right away, though. Is "TSC" an acronym for Tractor Supply Company?

Yes.

 

[HandLogger]

Thanks for straightening me out about that acronym, Adam. I thought there was some new (obscure) chain grinder manufacturer out there for a minute.

It's starting to read as if square grinding isn't a bad goal for us, so here's another question that keeps coming up as I read through the various related threads:

Is is feasible to take the Stihl RSC (full chisel) chain we've already purchased and used and "convert," for lack of a better word, them to "square chisel" chain?

I'm asking because we've accumulated quite a few loops of used [expensive] Stihl RSC, at this point. If it's practical to convert the RSC chain to a square grind, this would represent a good savings and further justify the investment in a quality square grinder -- like one of the Silvey models. Starting the new sharpening process by utilizing our used RSC loops first, and then slowly transitioning to square chain seems to make sense.

 

[watsonr]

Thanks for straightening me out about that acronym, Adam. I thought there was some new (obscure) chain grinder manufacturer out there for a minute.

It's starting to read as if square grinding isn't a bad goal for us, so here's another question that keeps coming up as I read through the various related threads:

Is is feasible to take the Stihl RSC (full chisel) chain we've already purchased and used and "convert," for lack of a better word, them to "square chisel" chain?

I'm asking because we've accumulated quite a few loops of used [expensive] Stihl RSC, at this point. If it's practical to convert the RSC chain to a square grind, this would represent a good savings and further justify the investment in a quality square grinder -- like one of the Silvey models. Starting the new sharpening process by utilizing our used RSC loops first, and then slowly transitioning to square chain seems to make sense.

ABSOLUTELY!! That is what us square users do and makes perfect sense. Not hard to regrind them to square. I even try to pick-up used chisel chain to make round ground into square and am in the process of buying only square from now on. Seems that square is even cheaper than round chisel just because far fewer use square.... seems the grinders are a little pricey...... or so I've heard.:msp_wink:

However, it takes longer to grind, it does cut faster and will not stay sharp in dirty conditions like a semi-chisel chain would. It still requires the chain to be good, same as a round grind.... there has to be some meat on the bone.

 

[Trx250r180]

Thanks for straightening me out about that acronym, Adam. I thought there was some new (obscure) chain grinder manufacturer out there for a minute.

It's starting to read as if square grinding isn't a bad goal for us, so here's another question that keeps coming up as I read through the various related threads:

Is is feasible to take the Stihl RSC (full chisel) chain we've already purchased and used and "convert," for lack of a better word, them to "square chisel" chain?

I'm asking because we've accumulated quite a few loops of used [expensive] Stihl RSC, at this point. If it's practical to convert the RSC chain to a square grind, this would represent a good savings and further justify the investment in a quality square grinder -- like one of the Silvey models. Starting the new sharpening process by utilizing our used RSC loops first, and then slowly transitioning to square chain seems to make sense.

i grind my rsc to square all the time ,you do lose a couple sharpenings in material due to the different angles

 

[J.W Younger]

ABSOLUTELY!! That is what us square users do and makes perfect sense. Not hard to regrind them to square. I even try to pick-up used chisel chain to make round ground into square and am in the process of buying only square from now on. Seems that square is even cheaper than round chisel just because far fewer use square.... seems the grinders are a little pricey...... or so I've heard.:msp_wink:

However, it takes longer to grind, it does cut faster and will not stay sharp in dirty conditions like a semi-chisel chain would. It still requires the chain to be good, same as a round grind.... there has to be some meat on the bone.

Are you havin any trouble finding oregon in square yet

 

[HandLogger]

Square's looking pretty good


Judging by this thread -- as well as others I've read recently -- square ground chain seems to be a popular choice.

If it's not too much trouble, would some of you folks comment on which square grinder you invested in, and why you chose that particular brand/model?

It would also be very helpful to read a few words about how folks handle their rakers and gullets, as well.

Thanks again for your time -- this is a very informative thread.

 

[watsonr]

You can use a round grinder to do the gullets and rakers or by hand as I do. It gives me time to really look the chain over and know where its at in terms of how am I doing with sharpening and so forth.

I have a couple of the silvey version's. I think they are about the only company currently making them. There are several others out there but seems parts are becoming harder to find. Neilsen made some which are NLA, Bell did some, which I believe became Foley-Bell and I'm not sure if they still make grinders for square. Simington made grinders similar to Silvey, not sure if they are still around either. All of the brands are hard to come by, mostly used except the Silvey, they are still being made today.

Both the Swing-Arm and Razur II are a manual type grinder requiring the user to do a majority of the work like you would do for round grinding. I think the SDM-4 and Pro-Sharp are more automated and accuracy is improved because of the automation.

 

[J.W Younger]

Judging by this thread -- as well as others I've read recently -- square ground chain seems to be a popular choice.

If it's not too much trouble, would some of you folks comment on which square grinder you invested in, and why you chose that particular brand/model?

It would also be very helpful to read a few words about how folks handle their rakers and gullets, as well.

Thanks again for your time -- this is a very informative thread.

That raker ques is a good one and I am very intrested in what others have to say, I keep them at .025 even when the cutters are short and like the way it cuts. The square cuts so much easier it don't pull the chain up out of the bar like round does. On the gulllets, when I see dust on the clutch and recoil covers the slag needs to be removed. A good square chain is llike a 10cc bigger saw.
Just my opinion tho...

 

[mdavlee]

I like the swing arm better than a razor sharp so far. The sdm and pro sharp are fed into the wheel without running the top plate over the corner. The wheels need less dressing on the sdm and pro sharp.