Homelite...can you figure this out...

[Woodplayer]

I thought I'd run this problem by you guys since likely someone has experienced a similar problem with an oil pump.
The saw is a Homelite XL-2 (50059) and was just inherited by my neighbour who asked me to have a look at some of the saws he was given.

I noticed originally that the saw was covered in oil (especially inside the muffler), so I cleaned it up good, checked compression and spark,
cleaned out the fuel and oil tanks, adjusted/cleaned the points, took the carb apart and cleaned. It's in really good shape.


I started after only about 6 pulls (it needed to draw fuel back up the fuel line after emptying the tank) and ran good, except for the idle, but smoked alot, with oil virtually running out the exhaust even after ten minutes of running. It appeared that it was burning the chain oil, so I pulled the delivery tube out of the oil tank and after a minute it ran perfectly and idled well, with no smoke.

I've attached a few photos of what I found and was hoping someone has an IPL or can figure the correct location for the oil lines.
It appears to have original lines which are in good shape and don't leak.

The delivery line from the oil tank goes to spigot A, the vent line from the oil tank goes to spigot B and the line which feeds the bar goes on spigot C.
As you can see by the photos, A goes straight through into the bottom of the pump, B comes out the hole where the shaft attached the the diaphram
goes into. I don't know where the "C" spigot goes as I cannot blow or draw air through it. That is my other concern


The hole marked "X" appears to go into the crankcase and this is likely where the oil is being drawn into the engine.

The way I would think the pump should work is that the delivery line should be connected to spigot B and then the pressure pulses from the crankcase
hole should push the diaphram up, which would allow oil to flow into the pump, then out spigot A which should go to the bar. The spring would force the diaphram down during the vacuum draw from the crankcase, to prevent oil from being sucked into the engine. I guess the oil vent line would go onto spigot C?

If I was to connect the lines the way I described I would need to install new lines as the lengths aren't right, which makes me think that perhaps I am not understanding how the pump works, then again maybe someone else had incorrectly installed these lines???

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Most likely one of your lil spigots had a blocked check valve if it, you can clean them out with carb cleaner
.



Normally I would give much better advise (more through) but I got wiped out by a cold today and am getting worse by the hour.


If Im totally off base here, someone chime in and hook this guy up.



.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Im thinking the pump is pumping, and there is a blockage and its backing into the crancase.

 

[tomdcoker]

I rebuilt one of those about two years ago and remember that there are two possibility's for oil in the crankcase, one is the lines are crossed (pressure line to tank and oil line to pump) or the diaphragm has a hole in it. There is a restriction in the hole where the plunder goes and that is the reason line c is not clear. It opens when the plunder works up and down.. From memory I think you have it plumbed right. Tom PS another possibility is the duckbill value on the line out of the crankcase is lost.

 

[OnlyHomelites]

Tomdcoker is right as to why it could draw oil into the cylinder. Port A must be the oil pickup line with the filter. Port B is the short line that goes into the top of the tank. It must have a brass tube with a duckbill valve on the end or the engine will suck oil back through the line. Port C is the discharge port and it should have a line that runs over to the back of the bar mount pad. I've never come across one of these saws that had an actual blockage in a valve, but anything is possible. Personally I think it's worth buying a couple of feet of Tygon fue line and replacing all three lines just to be on the safe side. Hope this helps!

 

[lesorubcheek]

Yep, this is a common prob. Here's an illustraton showing the oiling system.

As mentioned, if the special porous tub (part number 69569-B) and duckbill (#69451) are missing, bar oil will be sucked into the engine. There are other threads out here... try searching for "XL oiler" or "Super 2 oiler". The other thing that can happen is the actual housing the diaphram rod slides in can wear out and allow oil to pass through. These are replaceable, part number is 69343-1. Most common though is simply a missing duckbill.

Good luck,
Dan

 

[lawnmowertech37]

Yep, this is a common prob. Here's an illustraton showing the oiling system.

As mentioned, if the special porous tub (part number 69569-B) and duckbill (#69451) are missing, bar oil will be sucked into the engine. There are other threads out here... try searching for "XL oiler" or "Super 2 oiler". The other thing that can happen is the actual housing the diaphram rod slides in can wear out and allow oil to pass through. These are replaceable, part number is 69343-1. Most common though is simply a missing duckbill.

Good luck,
Dan

dan that part # 69343-1 i happen to have that if he needs one and i have the 69451 also just letting you all know
thanks
calvin

 

[galde]

Look at the end of the line going into the oil tank just under the oil tank cover. There should be a duckbill check valve stuck on a porous sleeve inserted into the end of the line. This sleeve eventually falls off the line when the rubber gets soft. This lets oil go back into the crankcase. If it is missing these parts, empty the oil tank (rinse out with fuel if necessary to dislodge the duckbill and sleeve). I use a small o-ring to clamp the sleeve onto the end of the line.

 

[Woodplayer]

Raised by Wolves - I will soak the "C" port with carb cleaner overnight... hope you're feeling better by morning.

tomdcoker and OnlyHomelites - After looking at lesorubcheek's diagram, it seems to show that my "A" port should be the pressure to the oil tank and the "B" port should be the oil delivery from the oil tank. This also seems to be the case in a past post I found. I just checked and I don't seem to have the duckbill and tube on the top pressure line in the oil tank.

lesorubcheek - Thanks alot for the diagram, it is a little difficult to read, but seems to show that I have two of the oil lines reversed. Thanks for the suggestion on what words to search for past posts.

lawnmowertech37 - I will keep you in mind for the duckbill.

So it's possible a number of things may be wrong, no duckbill, lines reversed and the possibilty of a sticky valve on "C" port. I'll let you know how I make out tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for all your suggestions!!

 

[mattinky]

I had problems with one of those saws recently and the little check valve was stuck closed, if you pull the diaphram out it has a plunger made onto it. I straightened out a paper clip and inserted it into the hole the plunger goes in and carefully pushed the check valve open with the paper clip while squirting carb cleaner through the fitting below - works fine now, and like others have said check out the duckbill valve in the tank

 

[Big Neb]

I have a Homey 360 that sounds just like this...

Does it have a similar oil delivery system?

 

[Haywire Haywood]

and when you're spraying that carb cleaner, put on those safety glasses.. it hurts when you get it in your eye... don't ask me how I know this, and for what it's worth...brake cleaner hurts worse.

Ian

 

[lawnmowertech37]

and when you're spraying that carb cleaner, put on those safety glasses.. it hurts when you get it in your eye... don't ask me how I know this, and for what it's worth...brake cleaner hurts worse.

Ian

been there done that learned my lesson it burns your eye and irratates it

of course this was back couple years ago but with me being a EMT i knew what to do to get it cleaned out

 

[lawnmowertech37]

I have a Homey 360 that sounds just like this...

Does it have a similar oil delivery system?

totally different the 360 has a oil primer the xl2 has a plunger type oiler

 

[lawnmowertech37]

woodplayer do you need a IPL for that saw if so i have one i can put it in the mail to ya as in email its also on CD

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I have a Homey 360 that sounds just like this...

Does it have a similar oil delivery system?

You may have bad seals in your pump. I have a half dozen of the 360 pumps and if I member correctly they use a gear on the end of the pump to rotate the internals?


I would guess an internal leak within the pump or an external leak by the O rings that seal it in the case.



Woodplayer....Thanks, I do feel better today!


OK, I dont feel like Im going to die anyhow.



.

 

[Woodplayer]

Well I'd like to thank you all for all the suggestions. I noticed that in my original post I was only concerned with the dumping of chain oil into the crankcase and had forgot to mention the bar wasn't receiving any oil neither.

It turns out that the pressure and oil delivery lines were indeed reversed, from my photos, port "A" is the pressure to the oil tank and port "B" is the oil delivery line and port "C" was correct as the output to the bar.

The one way valve near port "C" was also sticking so I had soaked it with carb cleaner. I also replaced all the lines. Other things that I found is that the tank lid must be good and tight, there must be enough oil in the tank and the filter on the end of the line in the tank must be submerged in oil :bang: .

The duck bill valve on the end of the pressure line in the tank is missing, so a small amount of oil finds it's way into the crankcase, but nothing like before. lawnmowertech37 I'll likely be contacting you in the next while for the duckbill valve, (and one for the fuel tank) but I have a couple more Homelites to go over first and I may need more parts.

Thanks again everyone for your help!!

 

[PES+]

You may have bad seals in your pump. I have a half dozen of the 360 pumps and if I member correctly they use a gear on the end of the pump to rotate the internals?


I would guess an internal leak within the pump or an external leak by the O rings that seal it in the case.



Woodplayer....Thanks, I do feel better today!


OK, I dont feel like Im going to die anyhow.



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100% correct.......