SliverPicker
ArboristSite Guru
In this world you will either go bankrupt buying the health insurance or you will go bankrupt if you get ill.
Is logging still a viable career path?
- Thread starter thumbilly
- Start date
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So not to get all political but... Single payer?
fool skip
ArboristSite Operative
To get back to the original question: "Is logging a viable career path?". Yes, most certainly, with the right situation.
Yes, sorry I got on a little rant. I personally think it's a great career. Definitely has ups and downs, but it's a tough job so not everyone is lined up to do it. Best advice I've got is always always be honest. Some of the most crooked people I know are loggers, also know some very good ones and they are the ones who thrive!
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92utownxh
ArboristSite Operative
I'm saying this as a 30something with a wife and 3 kids. I couldn't take a chance on the logging job. My passion is in the woods. I went to school for outdoor recreation and resource management. The reality is I couldn't get a decent paying job doing what I love. It sucks. I work in city government, outside half the time at least. Good pay, great health insurance, great life insurance, amazing amount of paid time off, and I have off every holiday paid. Short term and long term disability also. Sure, I dread going to work sometimes, and I hate that part. But it's the same pay check every single 2 weeks, and I don't have to worry about my family. If something would happen to me I have peace that every debt would be paid, the boys would get through school, and my wife would be able to live comfortably for life.
I get in the woods every chance I get, and make decent money doing firewood. It's a passion and hobby. Life does that sometimes. By all means better yourself and your situation anyway you can. Just make sure your family is taken care of first and foremost.
I get in the woods every chance I get, and make decent money doing firewood. It's a passion and hobby. Life does that sometimes. By all means better yourself and your situation anyway you can. Just make sure your family is taken care of first and foremost.
thumbilly
ArboristSite Operative
I really truly appreciate all the advice even though im still completely on the fence about it. A year ago i wouldnt have thought twice about it. I never saw a job in my future with any kind of benefits and it didn't really bother me. Now that i have some i feel an obligation to keep them. Even though for the most part theyre overrated and the amount of money i have to spend to actually use it is ridiculous. At the same time i feel like if i dont try logging itll be another regret not taking a chance. Ive made that mistake before when i let my parents talk me out of joining the military. A huge part of me has to know if i can do it. Maybe i just need a challenge not boring mundane repetitive job. Not that logging cant be that way, but every woods is different a new challenge if you will. I stand in front of a manual mill 10hrs a day chasing bolt holes with little hope of anything else. And the money is not great. Its low enough my children have insurance through the State. Not what i want but priorities and all. I knew asking here would be my best bet. No one in my life has the same passion that i have to be in the woods and running a saw.
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bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I quit my job with 4 kids and went all in 6 years ago. I hated my job and worked way to hard for little pay. I got a loan for a forwarder and a small startup loan. The first two years were hard. Like scraping by hard. But I kept pushing. I had no previous logging experience. Just some tree cutting experience. I cut for a mill so they always had work lined up for me and I get a paycheck every week. It took a long time to learn the machine and how to work it efficiently on different types of ground. Also always honing my cutting skills and striving for max footage per day. Three years in I had ally loans paid off and another kid to feed. My wife quit working after the fifth kid which was a year into the business. I'd say I do pretty well and have a good system down. I make $50-60 per hour on average and often times more. You definitely need to mechanically inclined though. I can fix everything on my 1990 Franklin. If I had to call someone to fix it i'd be in trouble. It can be done and to me I could never see doing anything else.
Good to hear from you, bitzer. I was beginning to think another with something useful to say had gone silent.
Ron
Ron
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I check in from time to time. Been hanging out in "east coast loggers" on FB. Trying to teach those boys theres more to life the bore cutting
Thumbilly- I was 29 when I started the biz. I've seen 5 crews start up and fold up in the last six years and I can tell you why every one of them did from the little bit I heard. I'm in SE WI so I'm guessing we are in similar climates.
Thumbilly- I was 29 when I started the biz. I've seen 5 crews start up and fold up in the last six years and I can tell you why every one of them did from the little bit I heard. I'm in SE WI so I'm guessing we are in similar climates.
If the woods are calling, they will never stop.
Also if logging ever seems repetitive, chances are yer about to get hurt.
Also if logging ever seems repetitive, chances are yer about to get hurt.
Another thing to know about logging is it's a feast or famine business. When you have work, you have more than you can handle and the phone is ringing non-stop. When you don't have work- no one else does either usually.
There may be a down turn in the log market or the economy and then all the mills stop taking wood. Right now, the export market is hot and all my former co-workers are at it hot and heavy.
A couple years ago there was no work here and everyone was laid off. If you're going to do it- be flexible and always have a back-up plan (i.e. something else to do).
There may be a down turn in the log market or the economy and then all the mills stop taking wood. Right now, the export market is hot and all my former co-workers are at it hot and heavy.
A couple years ago there was no work here and everyone was laid off. If you're going to do it- be flexible and always have a back-up plan (i.e. something else to do).
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
True. I always tuck a bit of $$ away over the year to allow me to eat and keep the lights on during break up (April-June)
ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
Fixing it yourself or hiring it out is always a tough one, at least for me. If I do it myself I save on that, but then I'm not making money for a day/couple days/week, so there's that too.
FWIW log prices are at a high hereabouts right now. Not all-time high -- that was late '90's -- but the highest since then.
Thumbilly, I'm jumping in here because I'm not sure I understand your situation. I get not liking your current job. I get the job offer with the loggers. What I'm not sure I have straight is the little business you have on the side. You say a firewood/logging business? I come from 4 generations of residential tree care. I went to the University of MD on a Botany major, was licensed and insured as a MD Tree Expert. At 29 I kind of burnt out on the 24-7 of owning a business, Dad retired in 85 and I went to work for UPS in 86. In 2016 I retired with 30 years at UPS. The reason I'm telling you this is I still bleed saw dust. I have a portable mill. I love working with big logs and big saws. Since I don't hang out on this forum, I don't know you like the other regulars might. The thing that worries me, from what I've read, is there is a world of difference between cutting logs for firewood, and a real logging operation. Many Tree Care businesses I've seen over the years were started by top notch climbers, and failed, because they were not top notch business men. I think you said you wanted to build your own business, great, that's where the money is, not working for another company. It's also where all of the responsibility lies, the stress, the hours, and a lot of the danger. If you build a business, you will be working 4-6 hours after all the men go home. I don't know the logging business, but I do know the tree care business. When I got out I was working for about one quarter of what I was running Dad's business. But at UPS I got 8 weeks vacation, health care, pension, 401K. My pension with all of the deductibles taken out is $75,000 a year, and I don't have to touch my Social security or 401K yet. You'll have to work your butt off and save a LOT of money to match that when you retire, or never retire. There are many people that jump into their dream, work their butt off, sacrifice, don't take vacations for years, put in 16 hours a day, and push and push till they come out on top. The view from the top is pretty good. Working for the other loggers is being in the middle, the view is mediocre at best. When I think of a small logging out fit, I'm thinking half a million in equipment. The other guys can tell you that better. I can skid logs with my Massey 135, I couldn't make a living with it. To get my MD Tree Expert license you had to know geology, why, that's where trees grow. Meteorology, why, what does the root system do after 6 days of heavy rain, and what does the canopy do with 40 MPH winds. Surveying, why, boundaries and right of ways. Law, why, the consequences of screwing up any of the a fore mentioned. What do you need to know to make it in the logging business? If I threw a bucket of life's cold water on your dream, sorry. If you are made of the right stuff, you can do it. Best of luck in your endeavors, what ever they may be. If I miss read anything and got off target, my apologies, Joe.
Brian72
ArboristSite Guru
Very well said!! I think you conveyed many thoughts we all have. I certainly don't want to discourage anybody and I'm sure none of the other members do either. It's just very hard to start a business from scratch. Many factors have to be considered before making any decisions. Businesses such as logging can be even harder considering the cost of necessary equipment. It's never too late to change your career path but just approach it with caution. I surely wish the OP all the best.
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ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
Agreed. Very easy to make $300-500k disappear on used equipment just to get started.
Feller Buncher
Delimber
Skidder
dozer
excavator
log truck
etc, etc, etc.
Oh, this is what threw me, you said you had a "supply". That sounds like a firewood operation, not a logging opp. A logger could go through a ten year firewood supply in a couple days, then he's done, no more work. Again, best of luck, Joe.
fool skip
ArboristSite Operative
Most successful logging contractors in this area started by working many years for someone else learning the business on their nickel putting in at least 5 years as a supervisor. This really helps when you visit the bank. If you decide to go the 1099 route, be sure and pay your quarterly estimates or you can really get bit.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Thumbilly you need some real numbers here. Are you getting paid by the board foot? Day? Hour? What would you be doing? Cutting? Skidder op? What kind of equipment do you personally have?
