OK.....Let's Get Into The Meat Of SRT !!!!

[rahtreelimbs]

Now that SRT seems to be the current big topic at hand. I am curiuos about a few things. I've known about SRT for about 5-6 yrs. now. I used it to clear a hillside once but never fully in a tree. The thing that I don't like is that your hitch bites down twice as hard as compared to double-rope. For the moment let's keep mechanical devices out of this and concentrate on hitches. Is there a hitch that releases easily on SRT?


Also tying off at the ground seems to be chancey. Keeping the limbs out of the rope tied at the base seems hard.


The floor is now open!!!

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I've never even considered using a hitch for just that reason. I'll bet that with some experimenting a rope/cord/hitch could be found that would grab and slide easily.

If I were to start an experiment I would probably start by adding a whole bunch of round turns to the top of a distel. Since its the upper loops that grab, it would seem that a combo could be found. Add a slack tender and it might work.

Tom

 

[rahtreelimbs]

Tom, I am glad you replied. Do you use SRT exclusively now. If not, what circumstances have you found double-rope to be better?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Rich Hoffman
... what circumstances have you found double-rope to be better?

Uhhhh, 'bout all of 'em? :angel:

'Course, I ain't Tom! He's an SRT wildman! Er, him 'n Carl...

 

[rahtreelimbs]

MB, I am not about to give up DbRT just yet. I just want to see what all the hype is. If I can't use a hitch of some sort, then I may not even consider SRT.

 

[Lumberjack]

I have found that on my Blue Steak, if I use a 1/2" rope for the tress cord, it helps alot.

On when DbRT works better is when I am comming down a spar partially and need to retie in. I put the rope over a stub, and come down with the rope doubled over. That way when I get to where I need to be, I can pull my line back down and reattach the line normally.

On stuff getting caught up in line that is returning to the base, I have never had that problem. I make sure that the returning rope is very close to the trunk. Now that I have my 200, I can pull the rope outa the way when flushing up after cutting a limb no problem.


I like the Idea of having the gri gri at the base, but I have not used it, mostly because I don't have a Gri Gri, but you could use a terrible hard locked 8, and get the same effect.


Not that yall care, but other than stated above, I use SRT exclusively. I started out with it, and have been using it for the whopping 4 months now (seems alot longer). The reason why is because I didn't like the problems asociated with isolating a TIP on DbRT, it was simpler, and it was what I knew. I would look at the pics in Sherrill and see that they pics used DbRT, and I couldn't figure out why, because my way was doin fine. I investigated (here and other places) and figured that I would stick with my method, because it was easier and simpler.

Matter of fact, when I first started with that god awful swiss seat, I had an ascender (closed shell I don't like handled), and a loop of rope I bought from low's to tie down the trailer. Boy have I come a way since then.


Carl

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Rich Hoffman
I just want to see what all the hype is.

The key word is 'hype'.

Can 'ya dig it?

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
The key word is 'hype'.

Can 'ya dig it?

Common Butch, even you can open up a little. What about the automatic tunner you showed me. Seems crazy, but it helps wonders. Change can be for the better. You know I wouldn't do it if it wasn't the best thing since sliced bread.


Carl

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

It's another set of tools to keep in the bag. There is a big learning curve in working SRT, so many who try it dont like it enough to not use it at all.

I can see someone who makes their money based on their current level of profficiency not wanting to even try it.

 

[NickfromWI]

Originally posted by Rich Hoffman
Is there a hitch that releases easily on SRT?

With a little experimentation you can find one. I did and others have as well. Here are my tips for finding that works for you.

Use something that has as high of a heat resistance that you can afford. Technora and Vectran are both good. Nomex also works (though I hear that depending of the construction of the rope, Nomex lines can have LATERAL stretch, which will greatly affect how the hitch grabs and releases). Larger diameter cords are less likely to bite down so tight that you can't release. Like Tom mentioned, a knot with more twists and turns that what you are used to will distribute the load over a greater surface area. This means that each part of the hitch is holding less weight (though the overall is the same, obviously). With each part not holding on as tight, it will still be releasable.

I think that's it for now. I'm sure there's more. You just gotta play with it. That being said, I think that SRT will be most successful when someone comes out with a mechanical device that can be advanced in the same way one would advance a Distel with a slack tender pulley. Like a lock-jack for srt.

love
nick

 

[Hemlock]

I have wrapped a locking biner with a lanyard to a single line. It's easy to advance and holds good. I run the loop around two or three times from the bottom up and clip the bight into the top of the biner. the other end goes on the harness. Nothing is hooked into the biner, it just rides between the coils and the climbing line to make it slide easier.

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by Hemlock
I have wrapped a locking biner with a lanyard to a single line. It's easy to advance and holds good. I run the loop around two or three times from the bottom up and clip the bight into the top of the biner. the other end goes on the harness. Nothing is hooked into the biner, it just rides between the coils and the climbing line to make it slide easier.

You are refering to a knot called the bachman i think. I have never tried it, but I bet it would work fairly well. I have a picture, gotta get it on the computer.

Carl

 

[Lumberjack]

Here it is.

Carl

 

[Tree Machine]

I use SRT most of a climb these days. That sounds odd. Try this: During a climb, most of the time I spend on rope is SRT.

Someone (I think it was Lumberjack) mentioned this in a previous thread; It went something like, tying off the standing end of your rope, not to the base of the tree, but rather, up IN the tree.

Just because it's faster for me, I DdRT up the tree, anchor the standing end of the rope up in the tree, SRT while I work the crown, and rappel out DdRT; unless I'm coming down with the intent of going back up, then I SRT down and SRT back up, and the final rappel DdRT. This is likely to change again as there's always new techniques to try, but that's been my general way since last Spring.

Maybe it's because it was a good number of years before I gained a true appreciation of SRT that I still DdRT a bit. Maybe it's because for me, switching from SRT to DdRT is like switching from tangerine to orange. Same sorta flavor, different sorta fruit.

Since I don't use friction hitches, except here in my basement to keep fresh in knowing how to do them, I'm going to step back out of this thread, which requests SRT concentrating on hitches. PS thanks for all the friction hitch threads lately. I find them fascinating.

Lumberjack, thanks for that pic. I honestly haven't seen that one before. -TM-

 

[NickfromWI]

Carl, I found that knot a few years ago. It sure looks cool! I tried it out, but not extensively. You cannot descend on it, can you? I didn't think to try. I assumed it was like the prusik.

love
nick

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by NickfromWI
Carl, I found that knot a few years ago. It sure looks cool! I tried it out, but not extensively. You cannot descend on it, can you? I didn't think to try. I assumed it was like the prusik.

love
nick

I dunno, I have never tried it, but with the givin description of the knot, I think that it may by for accending only, but who knows? Hemlock?



Carl

 

[Hemlock]

Carl you hit the nail on the head. I would only trust it for ascending since there are alot of other ways to descend. I just happened upon it while buying some gear one day. The rock climbers I talked with sure liked it for what they use it for. I still feel a little uncomfortable with one rope as I don't climb that much anymore. I'll tell you what though, seeing pictures of MB swinging around up there sure makes me want to get up there too!

 

[Lumberjack]

Tree Co raises a good point. I have never thought about it, but I am always tied in twice when I am running the chainsaw. That would make it awful hard to lower me when I am hurt.


On the note about something getting caught up in the line that returns to the base, I have never had anything get caught up in the line. I always make sure that the rope is as close to the trunk as posible, on the limb and then down the backside of the trunk. I wouln't want to cut a limb that was holding my climbiing line away from the trunk, as I would fall, as the slack was taken up, and I would land on my lanyard. That is why I make sure that it runs along the trunk. The only drawback to that is when you are flushing a cut, and you hafta pull the return line off the limb. That isn't a problem anymore now that I have my 200.

That being said, I could see how on a sprawling canopy the return line could get away from the spar, but a coupla redirects would take care of that.



Carl

 

[Tom Dunlap]

First off...

MB,

Unless you have something constructive to add to this thread, pipe down. I think we all know what your feelings are about SRT. I'm getting really weary of your sniping every time SRT comes up. This is what I'm referring to when I talk about civility. If you're just trying to up your message count, why not do it in another thread or forum.

Now, onto the subject at hand.

There isn't a lot that I can add to what has been said. The concerns that've been raised are valid. I like the oranges and tangerines analogy.

SRT has been a progression for me. Starting with choking my climbing rope with a running bowline to my TIP. As I moved along I realized that this had limitations. My goal has been to push SRT along and eliminate or reduce any limitations.

Like others have said, using it for ascent first and then gradually start to use it for working will lead to more use. I think that more climbers would use SRT if they were like Carl. Starting with a fresh plate and no bias towards either DdRT or SRT I think that an open-minded climber would tend to SRT. This is a nature or nurture test. Maybe I can get a grant to study this

Any friction system can be used at the base. Heck, a Munter works fine. I use a Gri Gri because I think it solves the problem better than any other device, that's all. IF there is a concern that the anchor might be bumped, the line can be redirected out the other side of the TIP and down to another anchor point. I always hard lock the line over the top of the Gri Gri.

Nick gave some good focus to finding a different climbing hitch. I'm sure there's one out there. I didn't go that route because I like the performance of the tools. I could see taking a side step and seeing what comes up though. Too bad I'm not climbing a lot this time of year.

If a rescue is needed, sure, an SRT climber with a lanyard would still need a climber to come up. But, if they were able to unlanyard themselves, the rescue could then be groundbased. If not, the patient is in no worse shape than a DdRT climber. Actually, a rescue might be a little easier having the patient in SRT. If there were a third, the climber would be able to just control the movement of the patient and the groundie would take over the lowering. This would take a lot of the jostling out of the rescue. Frees up the rescue climber to do other things besides tend to a climbing hitch.

Keep tossing things out here. You guys are coming up with some nuances that I movec past or haven't considered because of my thought processing.

Tom

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sorry if the 25 words I've posted earlier got yur undies in a bunch. I'll leave you alone on yur pulpit.

My pipes are down.