Prune, remove, or leave it alone?

[max503]

Here's a picture of my big pin oak. As you can see it has been topped some time in the past. I'm trying to decide what to do with it. A local service said they will re-top it for $1400 or remove it for $2700, stump included.
It has some dead stuff in the upper center. Just this summer I noticed carpenter ants in a small cavity in the base at ground level. I'm sure they've been around for a while.
IDK what to do. I'm sure trees can have "issues" but still survive for years and years. I almost had the tree guy come in and prune it, but I changed my mind and asked him to wait. He's reputable.
My wife says leave it alone.
I think pruning it now can avoid bigger concerns in the future. But how long away is "The Future"?
Other than that it leafs out nicely in the summer and it puts out lots of acorns.
Thoughts?

 

[nighthunter]

Personally I'd be in favour of cutting it fully down as a tree that size next to houses and with it hollow at the bottom is a recipe for diaster

 

[Ben84]

If you want to keep it, get it pruned, remove all the dead out of it. DO NOT top it again. How large is the hole in the base? Keeping a tree like that will require pruning every few years to mitigate risk of dead wood or decay. Are you willing and able to have that done? If not than removal may be your choice.

 

[no tree to big]

Ok my opinion as a certified arborist don't remove and definitely do not top it. If your guy is reputable he would not even offer to top it! Ask him for a price to trim it not to top it. Then find somebody else to give you recommendations. from my computer screen I say your trim job should be about a three hour job with 3 guys so under 1000 bucks. Where in Illinois are you im from Illinois as well maybe I can lend a hand in recommending somebody.

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[max503]

Ok my opinion as a certified arborist don't remove and definitely do not top it. If your guy is reputable he would not even offer to top it! Ask him for a price to trim it not to top it. Then find somebody else to give you recommendations. from my computer screen I say your trim job should be about a three hour job with 3 guys so under 1000 bucks. Where in Illinois are you im from Illinois as well maybe I can lend a hand in recommending somebody.

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I'm not sure what trimming would entail. Can you explain that? I live in the Alton area.

 

[no tree to big]

Order of priority goes as follows in our "general trim"
1. there are all the different objects we provide clearance for those cuts would be made first then we trim the rest of what's left to be as good as possible for the tree.
2. Dead and broken branches, self explanitory on what's removed, we provide several different options for the homeowner ranging in how big of deadwood we go after 1/2", 1", 2", 3", 4" obviously if we go after every little tiny piece it's going to take much longer and be more money vs taking the bigger stuff out that may consist of only a handful branches in a huge tree.
3. Crossing branches, anything that is rubbing on something that it's not supposed to and branches that just are disrupting flow in the tree.
4. Redundant/close together limbs this is more for small to medium size trees where you are training their limb structure. But also applies to the new growth out on the tips of large limbs. This one may come into play a lot on your tree do to it being topped and sending out a ton of new growth from the same location (the topping cuts)
5. We "lighten ends of heavy limbs" this one is kinda up for grabs on what is actually done. Depends who the trimmer is and their judgment and if we are running behind on the job or not. Some trees need virtually nothing while others have super long limbs with tons of foliedge that puts the limb near it's breaking point. Some situations we cut many little pieces off from here and there and everywhere, while other situations we lop off one piece from somewhere that's not a completely retarded thing to do...

And I know nobody in the st. Louis area and that's about a 4 hr drive for me...

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[Oldmaple]

Prune it. Not worried too much about the decay on Pin Oaks unless you can see a significant hollow. Ants are secondary, don't worry about them. Removal only if you don't want a tree there.

 

[max503]

Order of priority goes as follows in our "general trim"
1. there are all the different objects we provide clearance for those cuts would be made first then we trim the rest of what's left to be as good as possible for the tree.
2. Dead and broken branches, self explanitory on what's removed, we provide several different options for the homeowner ranging in how big of deadwood we go after 1/2", 1", 2", 3", 4" obviously if we go after every little tiny piece it's going to take much longer and be more money vs taking the bigger stuff out that may consist of only a handful branches in a huge tree.
3. Crossing branches, anything that is rubbing on something that it's not supposed to and branches that just are disrupting flow in the tree.
4. Redundant/close together limbs this is more for small to medium size trees where you are training their limb structure. But also applies to the new growth out on the tips of large limbs. This one may come into play a lot on your tree do to it being topped and sending out a ton of new growth from the same location (the topping cuts)
5. We "lighten ends of heavy limbs" this one is kinda up for grabs on what is actually done. Depends who the trimmer is and their judgment and if we are running behind on the job or not. Some trees need virtually nothing while others have super long limbs with tons of foliedge that puts the limb near it's breaking point. Some situations we cut many little pieces off from here and there and everywhere, while other situations we lop off one piece from somewhere that's not a completely retarded thing to do...

And I know nobody in the st. Louis area and that's about a 4 hr drive for me...

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Thanks. I actually know someone who talked about doing this. He quoted me $700. Your reply was very helpful, and consistent with what he said. I may get back with him. I had him take out a gum tree a few years back and he did a good job. You probably saved me from "the topper guy".

 

[max503]

Prune it. Not worried too much about the decay on Pin Oaks unless you can see a significant hollow. Ants are secondary, don't worry about them. Removal only if you don't want a tree there.

I've been doing a heck of a lot of reading and research, plus I spend a lot of time in the woods. Seems like a tree really needs to decay before it falls. This one is just starting. My wife wants to keep it. I'll probably just have it pruned - unless I win the lottery.

 

[ropensaddle]

Most of the time on restoration work post topping the idea is taking out or reducing the least favorable suckers and of course dead wood. Where the suckers come out of the heading cuts many times they create weak attachments with sharp v's and included bark. When I'm doing this type of project I look over the weak attachments and dead first. On your tree the first thing to do is find out the cause of tip die back. Were there any sustained droughts lately ? Would you say the ground there is normally wet, dry, or average? If it is either of the last 2 a wood chip or other organic mulch can benefit it's health more than any pruning will ever do. Start 10 inches from the trunk and lay a 2 to 4 inch deep mulch bed to dripline is ideal but probably not possible in your case as neighbor may not approve and you would cover your entire yard doing but 8 to 10 feet mulch ring will help and if done can actually look nice as well! It will help the tree in many ways but really helps in droughts. Pruning can then be done periodically to address other issues.

 

[max503]

Thanks for the advice. One more question:
I've heard you should only trim an oak when it's dormant. Would it be ok to have this work done now, in March in S. Illinois? The tree won't leaf out for at least another month. When is it too late to trim an oak?
Thanks again.

 

[ropensaddle]

Thanks for the advice. One more question:
I've heard you should only trim an oak when it's dormant. Would it be ok to have this work done now, in March in S. Illinois? The tree won't leaf out for at least another month. When is it too late to trim an oak?
Thanks again.

Technically yes but early fall is best for oaks it allows more time to heal and wall off. During that process the tree bleeds and can attract bugs which can carry disease. Call your local extension service to see if oak wilt is in your area? If it were not for bugs you would be fine i mean the worst time is during bud swell because as the growing season starts the bark slips and trunk damage is almost insured at that time of year.

 

[max503]

So I should probably wait until next Fall? I could do that. There is no immediate problem. There are no dead branches over-hanging anything. They are all in the center of the tree.
But yes. It is starting to feel like Spring around here. I've heard of oak wilt about 100 miles from here. Doesn't mean it couldn't be closer.

 

[no tree to big]

According to our local world renown Morton Arboretum, oak wilt has been found in every Illinois county.

Around me we haven't seen it in years. But we just had 3 confirmed cases in one of our forest preserves which happens to be 99.9% oaks.... hope that it don't spread

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[Bobby Kirbos]

I would have it trimmed and call an exterminator to take care of the ants.

 

[max503]

Most of the time on restoration work post topping the idea is taking out or reducing the least favorable suckers and of course dead wood. Where the suckers come out of the heading cuts many times they create weak attachments with sharp v's and included bark. When I'm doing this type of project I look over the weak attachments and dead first. On your tree the first thing to do is find out the cause of tip die back. Were there any sustained droughts lately ? Would you say the ground there is normally wet, dry, or average? If it is either of the last 2 a wood chip or other organic mulch can benefit it's health more than any pruning will ever do. Start 10 inches from the trunk and lay a 2 to 4 inch deep mulch bed to dripline is ideal but probably not possible in your case as neighbor may not approve and you would cover your entire yard doing but 8 to 10 feet mulch ring will help and if done can actually look nice as well! It will help the tree in many ways but really helps in droughts. Pruning can then be done periodically to address other issues.

I read somewhere that the best thing you can do for these trees is to leave the leaves and acorns. I do leave the acorns that fall. Some years they are very profuse. The ground directly under this tree is very soft when wet. I'm sure it's from the "leavings" over the years.
I'm going to wait until next fall and have it trimmed, due to the oak wilt. I've heard people talking about it in a nearby state park.

 

[ropensaddle]

I read somewhere that the best thing you can do for these trees is to leave the leaves and acorns. I do leave the acorns that fall. Some years they are very profuse. The ground directly under this tree is very soft when wet. I'm sure it's from the "leavings" over the years.
I'm going to wait until next fall and have it trimmed, due to the oak wilt. I've heard people talking about it in a nearby state park.

Yes trees feed off the litter layer both macro and micro nutrients are released and active biology exists in this environment,worm beds aerate the soil and micro organisms thrive . Their best environment can be seen in old growth mixed timber areas mother nature created. Man in urban environments cleans up the sticks,leaf,and sometimes acorns too partly for looks and partly to reduce fire hazard. Wood chips is my favorite way to add the layer back in a neat and beneficial way in my landscape. I usually put a layer on every 3 years, my trees actually said thanks too Even in forests where loggers created mono culture environments the soil is not as good as old growth diversity. Anyway yes fall is the best.

 

[ropensaddle]

I would have it trimmed and call an exterminator to take care of the ants.

Ants do no damage to sound wood they merely eat the rotten wood so you should look into that a bit further. Also; pesticides should only be used in a worst case scenario "as in many cases related to trees "more harm to the beneficial bugs occurs and pests have stronger recurrence basically throwing the tree into a mortality spiral. "just saying "