So I gotta ask....

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GilksTreeFelling

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What is up with these 45* back cuts ? I went through a large site *30acres* earlier this week to get to a good size stick of hardwood *37" rock maple* out for the owner and everywhere I looked were these ugly stumps. Looked like a conventional face with a 45* dowward back cut and little to no hinge wood. I mean dozens of recently cut ones.

Don't get me wrong I'm not a mystical wood cutting god like some of you guys on here some of my back cuts arnt perfect but holy jeepers. Did I miss some sorta of new better technique training ?some of these stumps I'd be worried the trees gonna come back on me if I cut like that.
 
Ok let me ask......

I saw a video extolling the virtues of the back cut being exactly the same height as the front. Why is that better than it being maybe 2" higher than the front?
 
Ok let me ask......

I saw a video extolling the virtues of the back cut being exactly the same height as the front. Why is that better than it being maybe 2" higher than the front?

Same height is good because it's easier to visualize how far to cut without cutting through your hinge. Above the face cut is good because it helps ensure that the log won't slide backwards off the stump and get ya. Below the face cut is good if the tree is being pulled over, especially if the line isn't super high; it helps ensure that the bottom of the log won't get pulled off the stump before the canopy goes over.
 
Ok let me ask......

I saw a video extolling the virtues of the back cut being exactly the same height as the front. Why is that better than it being maybe 2" higher than the front?

To be simple many years ago, when a standard face was the norm, the back cut was made an inch or 2 above the face to keep it from back slipping, and to gain a little ground on the slope part that was being sent to the mill.

With a humboldt it eliminates the need to be above the face as the stem will sit down on the slope part preventing back slip, so level is possible and encouraged.

Cutting lower then the face is pointless even if you are pulling or pushing one over, if ya got that much power it will slip the tree no matter what, but if it makes ya feel better go fer it.


If you plan on cutting for commercial timber, anywhere near the PNW, aim for a level cut or no more then 1" offset, standard or saginaw faces are ridiculed and will cause your logs to get deducts on either length or diameter, unless you take the time to buck em off. If you like a really big or super sloped standard face cut, figure on loosing the 2' or more that is saved by getting that lower stump, cause thats about how much they will deduct at when scaled... 2' of the biggest log in the tree... no problem

but if you're cutting for home use, do what is comfortable and safe, staying a little above even with a humboldt wont hurt anything, as long as ya don't get crazy about it... an inch or 3 is ok, leaving more then that is asking for trouble with lining up the hold wood etc.
 
I grew up in bc little town north of Victoria on the west side of the island so seeing a humbolt is the norm for me while I never had the pleasure of cutting the big west coast wood I understand it's reasoning and dynamics, Its only been since I've lived in the maritimes that I've been exposed to cuts more suited to the small wood here, but the sloping back cut just seems to put way to much risk into an already risky task. So I don't understand it's prevalence really, given so many of us whether production cutters or hobby cutters do or damndest to limit as much risk as possible when we can.

Sorry guys insomnia gets me rambling
 
Thanks gents. *hat tip* I'm a wee novice when it comes to commercial logging so this is all mumbo jumbo to me. I cut a lot for firewood but don't know what to call what I'm doing. Looks like I have lots of reading to do.

Much appreciated!
 
Anyone promoting a sloping back cut is a fool who likes to hear himself talk. A back cut has to be flat to allow the strongest wood to take the tremendous pressure even just one wedge can generate. A sloping cut will bend and flex and offer no support. The bigger the tree the greater the need for a perfect face, back cut, and technique. An old time faller I know took 4 hours to cut down one fire damaged redwood because each little nibble needed to be perfect. He was as patient as Job. (I had turned that tree down earlier).
 
I have been cutting since I was young and I continue to learn all the time. I have always made my back cut about 2 or so inches above the face cut. Then I was watching some video made by some Swedish Homestead? or something and they recommended cutting in exactly level towards the face when back cutting. I wondered then how many loggers cut "flush" and how many cut the way I try to a couple inches high. In my mind I always thought it kept the likelihood of a tree jumping back off the stump a little lower. Great descriptions great thread.
 
So
I cut flush for smaller wood so I don't have to flush the butt
I cut a little above on the bigger stuff to avoid fiber pull, but I have to flush the butt.
Still saves time overall.

On pistol butt trees I do whatever or just fart around cuz I have to buck it anyways
 
Great descriptions great thread.
I can be descriptive. May entail some dissecting first.


I have been cutting since I was young and I continue to learn all the time
Good attitude. It's wise to question. 'Time in' alone, doesn't stand for much.
A life of ****ing makes most none a pôrn star.
I always thought it kept the likelihood of a tree jumping back off the stump a little lower.
True! Or to help prevent it from going back over the stump more specifically. A "step" or in more technical terms: Anti-kickback step is still taught.
It's more of a backup up for a back up for a back up, If the tree comes over the stump and strikes the Rookie. He has done at least two things wrong not including the step. Perhaps 5 or 6 things wrong.

Rookie #2 is saved by a conscious step and may not even have known it but still done everything else wrong.
Bottom line: A step can save a really really horrible faller or someone that can't adhere to or there lacking proper procedure and order.
Q) Can a step save a really good faller?
Never

say never.


They still call from a 1/2 to 1" step on Humboldt & Swanson up to 33" Diameter here. Traditional 2" seems standard on Conventional and Birds mouth cuts.

In addition: 2" on Humboldt with upslope with Swanson or west coast Swanson "westcoaster"
(Try avoid uphill falling)

2" Humboldt on small diameter 'against the lean'.

Q) What makes the tree travel back
from its forward motion? Force and/or gravity
1) If the top hits first on the hillside; the spring from the top will send it back.
Gravity may be all it takes especially with snags without branches.
2) falling into objects.

I try to hit the 1/2" to 1" height on Humboldts. 1 1/2" on bar size (36") is proportionate if it's level. No step is acceptable but if they were all like that then your Bull bucker will say something and document it.
Problem with starting level on one side is if your undercut is slightly of or you dip on the back cut then you will undercut your undercut on the farside...and that is not acceptable.

If 'you' are falling a tree and are still caughting your own mistakes then it's a good indication 'you' should be using it and revisiting everything.
Pay closer attention to planning, reading your site, tree assessments, opening up or closed canopy falling. Falling into standing timber... brush out and make room. Fall out your snags, safety trails ( safe side) 2 trail if needed.Working from safe side. Looking up lots, getting away 10 ft minimal from stump or use cover tree. Don't miss your pivot points, cut logs that you are falling on that may extend behind or above the tree... may hit/ throw you or dislodge rock or uproot snags/trees way up the hill. Extra Cut up tree and getting distracted, being in a rush/aim

That's most all about "Going about falling the tree" which is the bigger part.
They^^will all get you as I know first hand. I have been both the guy lacking knowledge as well that horrible faller lacking discipline.
If you miss one thing or do 'one thing'..you are removing your safety net. If you have a near miss or end up wearing wood it's often involves 2 or more mistakes.

As far as Europe goes.....
It's really going to come down to the faller and how he controls his environment.
I haven't ever seen many falling training videos other than some that have been posted on site. I assume most of the emphasis is focused on falling cuts. Learning falling cuts with out the rest probably makes you more dangerous.
 
What is this about avoiding uphill falling?

I think they teach them that in school. In the real world if you're running a Cat show and your landings are downhill from the strip...as they should be...you better drop them uphill with the butts toward the landing. You'll hear about it if you don't.
Sometimes they might slide back down the hill at you but that's just part of the deal. Stay on your toes.
 
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