Attention Shaver owners

[ShaverFurnace]

... He worked out a deal with Natures Comfort and now we all have furnaces less than a week later. I really like this furnace. It has many more features than shaver and looks better to boot. The warranty is identical, door is bigger, there is a water level indicator, fan door actuator, switch for light and fan, fire brick, looks better.......(I guess I said that already). shaver has some serious customer service issues and I'm glad I will not have to deal with them in the future I know Natures comfort is new on the scene, but I'll take my chances. A little communication would have gone a long way, but I dont have to worry about that anymore!!!!

I attached a pic..............

Yes, their warranty is identical because the copied us - word for word.

Nature's Comfort was a dealer of ours and then as people often do, they think they can make more money building it themselves.

They copied our furnace's features and even copied our warranty because it was the best!

The big difference is that we have been in business 36 years - one of the very first ever! They are a NEW company, with no track record. They are having furnaces built in 4 different locations, where oversight is impossible.

So my question is WHY would you want a Nature's comfort with no track record and no history - just a more expensive copy-cat of ours? They cost about $1300 more.

The big question is, where are they going to be when service or warranty work is needed?

I hope I'm wrong, but then you will be REALLY complaining - about them!

Think about this a minute; why do they have them in stock? Could it be because they cost more? Because they have no track record? Because people don't want them? EVERYONE ELSE in the industry who has something good, is backed up many months like us!

Best regards,

Ben

P.S. Bigger doors waste more heat and can you really lift a log that is bigger than 15" round anyways? Can you (or do you want to) lift a 30" log, 15" round, that weighs 112 lb?

Our door will take an 18" log.

Switched can be added by the end consumer for a couple of bucks, instead of paying a welder $20 bucks an hour ( = more cost for you).

We are adding a water level indicator but why do you need one? No one has complained in 35 years.

Our fan shut off the air supply, as soon as it stops - and sure we can supply the optional fan with a solenoid, but they break down! We value simplicity and lower cost.

 

[ShaverFurnace]

Ash pans and chimney extensions

I agree with everything you said except for the ash bin ( as I call it ) I'm still waiting for Ben to get back to us about the existence of an actual removable pan. Probably rig up something on my own like a lot of Shaver owners do for other things.. This is like customizing a hot rod back in the 50's and 60's..


Hellllooo Ben..........


Maybe we need to start a new thread.. entitle it " The Shaver Improvement forum "

Hi!

Ash pans are available.

We can make one for you at the factory.

The weird things is, we have been asked about the before - before a purchase was made - but not a single person had come back to get one after they got their furnace. I suppose they find out how easy it is to use a small shovel to remove the ashes AND they find they only do it once a week anyway!

We also have chimney extension adapters now, so that regular 6" stove pipe can be used to extend the chimney.

Best regards,

Ben

 

[John D]

I stuck it out with Shaver,hopefully my boiler and the 6 other Shavers that make up our order will be here next week.They called and said they were leaving early next week.We ordered mid june,its going on 21 weeks,so far.We have been heating for well over a month with oil this season,and our rain,and short days will make installing these boilers a lot of fun as the ground is saturated on most of our sites. Ive found a few CB boilers,and Nautres comforts if the Shavers dont get here,and in all honesty at this point, Im ready to fill my 1000 gal oil tank since i can buy oil for about $2.20 a gallon now,steel is going down in price,and I have a feeling these boilers are going to be flooding the market next yr .I bet the OWB prices will fall dramaitcally next season.Heating oil hit 4.80 a gallon here this june,when i ordered the Shaver.

 

[ShaverFurnace]

1965 Fords and CBs

We have fords, but they are a 1965 Ford Galaxy 500 with a solid frame and heavy gauge sheet metal. There's no doubt CB is the most popular boiler, but I like my ash pan and blower, not to mention the extra $2000 in my pocket. Isn't it great being able to burn crap that wouldn't normally burn unless it was soaked in gasoline?

Hi!

No doubt that we have a much heavier furnace (read: more metal) than anyone else. Just look at the weights listed. The sad thing is that most manufacturers don't tell you what metal they use for the firebox (or anything else). You have to call and ask or speak to a welder (at CB, like I did) to find out that the metal is thinner.

What many people don't realize about a CB, until after they purchased it, is that there isn't an ash receptacle.

That means that they are forcing you to either let the fire die down or you have to shove the burning wood aside in order to clean the ashes out of a 7-800 F firebox! That's no fun. Then you have to restart that fire, in the dead of winter.

In the meantime, you're letting all of the heat out, by having that door open all that time..

A number of people have reported unburnt wood with Central Boiler's lack of a forced air fan.

They have also said that they loose a lot of small pieces of burning wood when cleaning out the ashes.

Our firebox is round - requiring only 3 welds to make - compare to 12 welds with the less efficient square box. Fires like to swirl around the round box, but don't like corners.

Their waffle style firebox also requires a lot of extra welds (read: more places to leak) and is less efficient than the Shaver design. We have a chimney that drops down on the firebox 14", trapping in the heat and gases, to maximize heat transfer and ensuring you're not heating the outside air!

The CB does not have a fan! Our fan is even better than other models with the fan on the front door, blowing air into the side of the fire. Our fan is in the back and blows air up through the grate, feeding oxygen into the fire from the bottom, just like a blacksmith's forge - the best way! Many furnaces don't have a fan at all (like CB) and they smoke the worst and are inefficient.

There are no fancy (expensive) electronics or circuit boards on our furnace, to burn out at the first power surge or electrical storm.

All of our parts are off-the-shelf parts, available anywhere! There is nothing proprietary that you have to get from us.

No hot water coil in the CB. It uses a less efficient plate exchanger and you can end up with scalding water!

I've had a couple of calls from folks with CBs that have failed in only 2-3 years, requiring expensive repairs. One person had a CB that was only 3 years old but requires a repair costing $3000 - under warranty! They said why pay $3000 when we can buy your furnace for $1300 more!

Beware - many warranties don't cover labor and require that you ship the furnace back to them. We have a 20-year warranty on parts AND labor PLUS the first 5 years is on-site, meaning that we send a local repairman TO YOU in the rare event of a leak (we've never had one).

Best regards,

Ben

P.S. Bigger doors ARE available to the folks that just have to have them!

 

[ShaverFurnace]

I stuck it out with Shaver,hopefully my boiler and the 6 other Shavers that make up our order will be here next week.They called and said they were leaving early next week.We ordered mid june,its going on 21 weeks,so far.We have been heating for well over a month with oil this season,and our rain,and short days will make installing these boilers a lot of fun as the ground is saturated on most of our sites. Ive found a few CB boilers,and Nautres comforts if the Shavers dont get here,and in all honesty at this point, Im ready to fill my 1000 gal oil tank since i can buy oil for about $2.20 a gallon now,steel is going down in price,and I have a feeling these boilers are going to be flooding the market next yr .I bet the OWB prices will fall dramaitcally next season.Heating oil hit 4.80 a gallon here this june,when i ordered the Shaver.

Thanks for sticking with us!

After people get their furnace, they write about how thrilled they are with it and glad that they waited.

Last year, when oil was even cheaper than it is now, it was phenomenal. Sales never even slowed down in Jan, Feb and March, like they usually do.

People don't quickly forget the pain and suffering from sky-high fuel prices.

We are still selling them now for Jan delivery.

Orders came in every single day, last Spring, when it usually dead.

In fact, summer is usually worse, when it's hot out, people are vacationing and no one is thinking about selling their home BUT we hade more sales in the summer than ALL of the previous year!

I don't think it will ever slow down now...

 

[ngzcaz]

Well Ben we are making progress.. you're calling it an ash receptacle instead of an ash pan. I, for one, would like to know the cost for a 165 Shaver and also how it comes up past the incline of the bin ( receptacle ) I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one that doesn't want a face full ash dust when pulling it out to the bucket when the winds blowing. And no, I wasn't informed of the existence of a pan when I ordered mine. I did know about the bigger door and shaker grate because I asked. I didn't ask about the pan because I thought it already had a pan.. make that bin/receptacle. And once a week emptying translates to 16 to 20 days of ash removal per heating season. However, if its only going to be about a 2 inch removable pan ( about the height of the opening and I cant see how it would be any larger ) its going to fill up quickly. And while I'm on a roll PLEASE explain why it has the incline to begin with.. if it was flat you'd have room for about a 4 inch plus pan which would worthwhile. Can I take a torch and cut out the incline or will it compromise the water jacket ?

On the plus side, its eating junk that probably wouldn't burn in my outdoor fire ring and 12 hr burns are easy so far but its only been three days and the jury's still out..

 

[fletcher0780]

And while I'm on a roll PLEASE explain why it has the incline to begin with.. if it was flat you'd have room for about a 4 inch plus pan which would worthwhile. Can I take a torch and cut out the incline or will it compromise the water jacket ?

What incline are you talking about? I have a full 4" of height in my ash area.

 

[ngzcaz]

On the 165 there is an incline where you drag the ashes up to the door. In other words imagine opening your ash door and instead of it being straight back, it drops approx 2 inches to the bottom. Thats why it drove me crazy to think " why did they do that ? " If yours is straight back, be thankful, it will be a snap to make your own ash pan. Anyone familiar with a welder and a torch can make one up for you. If I make one, it would have to be only the height of the door which is approx 2 inches or so. I'll lose half of the capacity and be a pain to boot. Somehow I don't think Ben will have an answer for this one..........

 

[ngzcaz]

To further clarify, how high is your door ? The removable ash pan can't be any higher than the opening it has to come out.. My ash pan door height is 2 inches.. Your door must be 4 inches high.. and straight back..

:jawdrop:

 

[fletcher0780]

On the 165 there is an incline where you drag the ashes up to the door. In other words imagine opening your ash door and instead of it being straight back, it drops approx 2 inches to the bottom. Thats why it drove me crazy to think " why did they do that ? " If yours is straight back, be thankful, it will be a snap to make your own ash pan. Anyone familiar with a welder and a torch can make one up for you. If I make one, it would have to be only the height of the door which is approx 2 inches or so. I'll lose half of the capacity and be a pain to boot. Somehow I don't think Ben will have an answer for this one..........

my goes straight in, I can use a little hoe and pull the ashes straight out. I did get an extra large door, maybe that's the difference? My boiler is a 290, but I think the only difference that makes is it is longer.

 

[derwood91]

Hi!

In regards to the fellow who claims I never answered. I answered THREE TIMES. Many ISPs block ANYTHING that looks remotely like spam and that can't be my fault. I didn't see his post about the private message.

Best regards,

Ben

Well Ben, I sent you a PM long ago (10-16-20008 @ 9:31 PM) without an answer. I am fairly new to this forum but I have received a few PM's in my short tenure. I know when I received a new PM because I get a "POPUP" window that I MUST address before I can continue in the site. Is this a setting that can be disabled........Anyone???? Regardless.... I felt like I was kept out of the loop. Not a good feeling and I was wondering " What if I have a warranty issue and need help? Will I be able to get help or will I be left in the dark waiting for a reply?" NO THANKS!

Nothing personal Ben. I'm sure you are trying your best and I definitely know I wouldn't't want to be in your shoes!! Looks like the tribes are getting restless.... You may consider circling the wagons!!! lol I just changed tribes!!

Seriously though...... shaver should get you some help.

 

[fletcher0780]

To further clarify, how high is your door ? The removable ash pan can't be any higher than the opening it has to come out.. My ash pan door height is 2 inches.. Your door must be 4 inches high.. and straight back..

:jawdrop:

My door is at least 4" high, an I now see what you mean about the slope down on the floor of the pan. I don't see how the sloping floor will cause a problem though.

 

[ngzcaz]

Maybe Ben can explain this ???? There's no way mine can be one of a kind..

Hellloooo Ben ??

 

[ShaverFurnace]

Zero warranty problems

Well Ben, I sent you a PM long ago (10-16-20008 @ 9:31 PM) without an answer. I am fairly new to this forum but I have received a few PM's in my short tenure. I know when I received a new PM because I get a "POPUP" window that I MUST address before I can continue in the site. Is this a setting that can be disabled........Anyone???? Regardless.... I felt like I was kept out of the loop. Not a good feeling and I was wondering " What if I have a warranty issue and need help? Will I be able to get help or will I be left in the dark waiting for a reply?" NO THANKS!

Nothing personal Ben. I'm sure you are trying your best and I definitely know I wouldn't't want to be in your shoes!! Looks like the tribes are getting restless.... You may consider circling the wagons!!! lol I just changed tribes!!

Seriously though...... shaver should get you some help.

Hi,

Help? I do this voluntarily, to simply help you. No pay...

A PM? I didn't even know what that was! Every time I try to get a personal message, it doesn't let me. My pop-up browser blocks it.

I click the bar at the top to temporarily allow pop-ups and sometimes I can read a message.

I see where someone said they sent a PM, but I didn't see that one until too late...

We don't handle warranty issues internally. We hire someone CLOSE TO YOU to handle it but I only know of a couple times that anything was needed at all! Everyone else requires that you ship the furnace back to them! YIKES! Think of what that will cost!

Best regards,

Ben

 

[tanker]

My C.B. has a door problem,is 4 years old and next spring when shut down is going back to them on their dime,no cost to me.I think that is as good as you could get.

 

[ngzcaz]

Fletch, I just measured mine and it is 4 inch opening. My question is what kind of shovel are you using that you can reach to the back of the bin ? Could you post a picture ? The slope is what screws things up regarding a removable pan. Valuable space will be lost because of it. You can't put a 6 or more inch pan in a 4 inch opening. Seems the most you could do would be to get the length of the shovel up to the point where it curves upward. That would only be a foot or so. I would guess you'd have to then rake the ashes forward and repeat the process.

How are you dealing with the ashes up top in the burn area? Sooner or later the ashes will accumulate on the sides necessitating either removal with a shovel while the fire is going ( ala CB type boilers ) or raking the ashes that they fall thru the grates and into the pan. If the boiler was truly circular instead of the flat bottom they would hopefully fall to the sides and into the bin.

 

[ngzcaz]

Tanker.. this doesn't come easy, but I'll come to Shavers defense this time. I'd rather have someone come to my house, repair the problem and thats it. Who's going to remove your door ? I doubt CB will send someone to do that. So it would be a bit more work on your part. Plus someone will have to ship it to the factory.. more time on your part.

Boy I hope I dont have to eat this words later..................

 

[fletcher0780]

ngzcaz,

I don't use a shovel, I use a small garden rake upside down. I pull the ashes out, and let them fall on the pad, then I shovel them into my wheelbarrow and dump them in the woods. After 1 month of burning I got maybe a 5 gallon pail full. As far as the firebox goes, I use the shaver poker tool to pull ashes and coals forward before loading. I've got no excessive build up of ashes and I've been burning since Sep 15th. I am going to buy a hoe to pull the coals forward and make the process a bit quicker. I think if the ash pan was 4" tall and 20-30" long it would 3-4 weeks before it filled up. I also think the ashpan will work as a scoop because the back will need to be open to allow airflow from the blower.

 

[tanker]

Tanker.. this doesn't come easy, but I'll come to Shavers defense this time. I'd rather have someone come to my house, repair the problem and thats it. Who's going to remove your door ? I doubt CB will send someone to do that. So it would be a bit more work on your part. Plus someone will have to ship it to the factory.. more time on your part.

Boy I hope I dont have to eat this words later..................

Nope,the whole boiler is going back for repair or replacment.They will pick up here and haul ti Minn. and back on their dime.Great product and great dealer.Scott

 

[ngzcaz]

Maybe thats part of the increased cost of the CB ??


:jawdrop: :agree2: