How screwed am I? Frozen Line?

[Marklambert61]

Frozen pipe

Is the pipe thats froze in the attic Pex or Copper?

Mark

 

[reaperman]

Get a coupling, cut the son of a gun at a high point. Then you can see what you have,..
Worse part is the incoming weather is going to be colder than a well diggers arse.

This is about the best idea from what I can see. You can than run a fish tape of some kind into the line to find the frozen spot. I would doubt if the line is frozen underground, especially this year with all of the snow we have had. Most likely inside somewhere. I know the helpless feeling your feeling now, you will get through it much smarter when its all over.

 

[AIM]

I did that once. It was pretty cool. I doubted the advise at first but after seeing it I was impressed.
PS.. clamp the leads on FIRST,, then turn the welder on.
low setting will get the job done!

 

[Rookie1]

I did that once. It was pretty cool. I doubted the advise at first but after seeing it I was impressed.
PS.. clamp the leads on FIRST,, then turn the welder on.
low setting will get the job done!

:agree2: I shoud have mentioned those details. Also this company had a large fuse connected to the one lead. Very neat.

 

[Jaberwky]

Mass reply

Still out of commission. Plumber coming tomorrow morning - a neighbor suggested getting at the line, then dropping/forcing heated fish tape down the line. We'll see what the plumber says.

To beerman6 - yes you are right it's pay now or later, but if I wait til spring thaw my only cost becomes the air bleed, which is going to have to happen anyway since I'm going to flush the system, add antifreeze, and do some other changes.

To marklambert 61 - I really do not believe the freeze is in the attic (and the lines are 1" PEX). Everything that is sitting below the blown-in insulation seems to be staying plenty warm and the parts of the lines that are exposed now have heat tape on them. I think the freeze is in the outside vertical insulated line that runs up the outside of the house. But I'm done guessing as to what "might" be the spot. The most frustrating part is that the CB install guide calls for a bleed valve at the high point of the line, plus a hose bibb for flushing the system at the low point. Hmmm, seems the installers sort of forgot to include those parts.....

Thanks for the suggestions thus far - it's good to know that at the very least I'm not the first nor the last to have the very same issues! Misery loves company, eh? One other thing that I've realized in messing with this boiler this season is that the old CB access panel design is for the darned birds. Every time I want to get at the pumps I have to remove sheet metal screws, slide the big cover off, and remove two pieces of batt insulation, then find a spot out of the wind to set it all during work. Then of course repeat the process in reverse.... The newer models have the access door that just unlocks and swings out on a hinge. Must be nice!

 

[Jkebxjunke]

could you add a heat tape to the vertical lines outside the house?

 

[modn]

Still out of commission. Plumber coming tomorrow morning - a neighbor suggested getting at the line, then dropping/forcing heated fish tape down the line. We'll see what the plumber says.

To beerman6 - yes you are right it's pay now or later, but if I wait til spring thaw my only cost becomes the air bleed, which is going to have to happen anyway since I'm going to flush the system, add antifreeze, and do some other changes.

To marklambert 61 - I really do not believe the freeze is in the attic (and the lines are 1" PEX). Everything that is sitting below the blown-in insulation seems to be staying plenty warm and the parts of the lines that are exposed now have heat tape on them. I think the freeze is in the outside vertical insulated line that runs up the outside of the house. But I'm done guessing as to what "might" be the spot. The most frustrating part is that the CB install guide calls for a bleed valve at the high point of the line, plus a hose bibb for flushing the system at the low point. Hmmm, seems the installers sort of forgot to include those parts.....

Thanks for the suggestions thus far - it's good to know that at the very least I'm not the first nor the last to have the very same issues! Misery loves company, eh? One other thing that I've realized in messing with this boiler this season is that the old CB access panel design is for the darned birds. Every time I want to get at the pumps I have to remove sheet metal screws, slide the big cover off, and remove two pieces of batt insulation, then find a spot out of the wind to set it all during work. Then of course repeat the process in reverse.... The newer models have the access door that just unlocks and swings out on a hinge. Must be nice!

See if your plumber has a small portable steam machine. I have a local plumber that has one with a little 1/4" copper line that he feeds in. The steam coming out the end will melt anything frozen. I has worked wonders in drain lines/plumbing and whatever else he has used it on. Once the flow starts, even a trickle, you will be set.

 

[Mike Van]

Don't know if this will help or not, years ago we had a 3/4 plastic line to a spring froze [buried 4 ft.] I made up a steam pot from an old pressure cooker. I put 1/4" hose on where the blow off valve used to be, sat it on a propane burner, and fed 90 ft of 1/4" line into the 3/4" one. It took some time, but it thawed the line. The steam coming out the end of the 1/4" hose did a good job on the ice. The next summer, we reburied the line 6 ft.

 

[modn]

Don't know if this will help or not, years ago we had a 3/4 plastic line to a spring froze [buried 4 ft.] I made up a steam pot from an old pressure cooker. I put 1/4" hose on where the blow off valve used to be, sat it on a propane burner, and fed 90 ft of 1/4" line into the 3/4" one. It took some time, but it thawed the line. The steam coming out the end of the 1/4" hose did a good job on the ice. The next summer, we reburied the line 6 ft.

Good idea...

You owe me a beer!!

 

[mtfallsmikey]

The story of the pressure cooker reminds me of a long time ago working with my dad..we rigged up a steamer from an old Freon jug:jawdrop: had a hose on the outlet, put it on top of the old gas burner we used to heat lead, stuck the hose into the affected area...worked well.

 

[showrguy]

you sure the h/xchanger itself is not froze up ? i did'nt see anything mentioned about that..

 

[Jaberwky]

Am I sure?

you sure the h/xchanger itself is not froze up ? i did'nt see anything mentioned about that..

Am I sure? Right now I'm not sure about ANYTHING, but it seems that if there's been hot air from the propane burner blowing past the exchanger this whole time I'm fairly confident that it's thawed there. But I've been wrong before!

Plumber said they don't have anything to thaw PEX. I asked about a weighted heat/fish tape and he said nope. I may call another plumber - this guy seemed flummuxed with the system. Despite the fact that I pointed out the big black insulated pipe snaking up the side of the house by the boiler, when leaving he said "oh - you have an outside line? I didn't notice that". Uh, yeah.......

Ding, ding - Round 4!

 

[showrguy]

aahh, just re-read entire post,
are all of your lines running up the side of the house together or are some split underground going elsewhere ? are they all buried in the same ditch together ? if so, not likely frozen underground...
if they are seperate distinations then it has to be frozen in your verticle run on the outside, or by now possibly from the top down to frost line however deep that might be ..if you grab em and move em around you'd be able to hear the ice cracking if they are/were frozen..
my2 cents, good luck

 

[Mike Van]

I think you need a new plumber? Plastic line was why I had to use the steam pot, you don't want to melt it shoving hot metal in there. Welder won't work - either.

 

[bore_pig]

The welder thing works, it gets used at work once in a while. The old boys don't like doing it if there's other options. They say that in the past when they did it more often, they would sometimes see very little heat in the area they wanted, and a LOT of heat in some other area.

I've not seen this phenomena myself. Electricity can do weird things though!

 

[Mike Van]

If the Pex pipe is all plastic, you'll be SOL with the welder.......

 

[sloch24]

A couple of years back my water line froze where it comes into the house. I took a bucket of hot (tap) water, and used a pond pump to pump the water through clear plastic tubing. I just pushed the tubing until it wouldn't go any further, turned on the pump, and it was amazing how fast the water thawed. (word of caution to anyone wanting to use this method on a water line, TURN OFF WATER AT THE STREET BEFORE YOU START! )

It worked for me. I called a plumber, and he said that he would have to dig up the line and get some heat on it. I was sitting at work that night wondering what I was going to do, and had this idea. I literally had water in 20 minutes after taking the fitting apart. I don't see why this wouldn't work with a longer run as well, you'd just need some long tubing. The only problem I foresee is if there are sharp bends in your line.

 

[Scootermsp]

Great Idea!

A couple of years back my water line froze where it comes into the house. I took a bucket of hot (tap) water, and used a pond pump to pump the water through clear plastic tubing. I just pushed the tubing until it wouldn't go any further, turned on the pump, and it was amazing how fast the water thawed. (word of caution to anyone wanting to use this method on a water line, TURN OFF WATER AT THE STREET BEFORE YOU START! )

It worked for me. I called a plumber, and he said that he would have to dig up the line and get some heat on it. I was sitting at work that night wondering what I was going to do, and had this idea. I literally had water in 20 minutes after taking the fitting apart. I don't see why this wouldn't work with a longer run as well, you'd just need some long tubing. The only problem I foresee is if there are sharp bends in your line.

There are some brilliant people here that come up with ingeneous solutions to problems. This idea is so simple yet foolproof. Why wouldn't a plumber who does this for a living think of it? Simple because it's so simple that it's not obvious !!! Nice work !

 

[sloch24]

My wife has been telling me for the last 2 years to submit that tip to "Ask This Old House" so I could get a free T-shirt. I just told her that I posted the tip on this site, so I had to go to This Old House and give them the tip as well.

I hope it helps someone! It sure did save me a few hundred dollars and a lot of mess.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

plastic icemaker tubing would be stiff enough and its cheap