Problem Hand Filing @ 10 Degree Down Angle with File Holder?

[Philbert]

We have discussed the merits of filing vs. grinding, and chisel chain vs. semi-chisel chain. We have also discussed how full chisel chain is normally filed at a 10 degree 'down angle' (or ground with the vice tilted 10 degrees), while semi-chisel chain is filed/ground flat (sometimes referred to as a '0 degree down angle', sometimes as '90 degrees').

Since i never run full chisel chain, it never occurred to me that the 10 degree angle is difficult to file with the Oregon type file holders. Please see the note at the bottom of the image below, taken from an Oregon spec sheet.

Is this correct? Is is also a problem with the Swedish style roller guides?

Philbert

 

[J.W Younger]

We have discussed the merits of filing vs. grinding, and chisel chain vs. semi-chisel chain. We have also discussed how full chisel chain is normally filed at a 10 degree 'down angle' (or ground with the vice tilted 10 degrees), while semi-chisel chain is filed/ground flat (sometimes referred to as a '0 degree down angle', sometimes as '90 degrees').

Since i never run full chisel chain, it never occurred to me that the 10 degree angle is difficult to file with the Oregon type file holders. Please see the note at the bottom of the image below, taken from an Oregon spec sheet.

Is this correct? Is is also a problem with the Swedish style roller guides?

Philbert

you can drop a FOP over it to set the height and use the angle mark on the cutter to keep the 25 deg angle if your talking about oregon chain that is. Then you can drop the file too get your 85 deg.

 

[woodyman]

I got to try that 25 degree top plate angle and 10 degree down angle.I have always done mine 35 degree top plate angle and 5 degree down angle.Does the 25,10 cut faster than 35,5?What would be the best angles for the fastest cutting chain in hard woods?

 

[TraditionalTool]

I'm not a fan of filing gizmos...I only use a gauge to file the rakers.

 

[joatmon]

I'm not a fan of filing gizmos...I only use a gauge to file the rakers.

:agree2:

 

[MR4WD]

Don't use a gauge, practice til' perfect.

 

[heimannm]

I think the problem with using the flat guide and the 10° angle is it actually raises the file at the point of the tooth making the angle of keeness too blunt.

I like the File O Plate for any chain they will fit, you can vary your angles if you want but the plate always keep the file at the right depth/height.

I also have a couple of the die cast "V" guides for the .404 and 1/2" pitch chains, I enjoy filing these big chains as it is so easy to see what you are doing.

In my experience, a full chisel chain sharpened at 30-35° and 10° will cut really fast, for a while. I always seem to run in to something that dulls it before I run a full tank of gas through a saw. Any chain filed at 25° will not cut as fast but will hold the edge a bit longer and certainly would be preferred for hard wood or dirty conditions.

For all day cutting, I would stick with a semi-chisel or chipper chain, may not be the fastest in the first cut but it will hold up better through a whole tank or two.

Mark

 

[logging22]

Don't use a gauge, practice til' perfect.

:agree2:

 

[MR4WD]

I think the problem with using the flat guide and the 10° angle is it actually raises the file at the point of the tooth making the angle of keeness too blunt.

I like the File O Plate for any chain they will fit, you can vary your angles if you want but the plate always keep the file at the right depth/height.

I also have a couple of the die cast "V" guides for the .404 and 1/2" pitch chains, I enjoy filing these big chains as it is so easy to see what you are doing.

In my experience, a full chisel chain sharpened at 30-35° and 10° will cut really fast, for a while. I always seem to run in to something that dulls it before I run a full tank of gas through a saw. Any chain filed at 25° will not cut as fast but will hold the edge a bit longer and certainly would be preferred for hard wood or dirty conditions.

For all day cutting, I would stick with a semi-chisel or chipper chain, may not be the fastest in the first cut but it will hold up better through a whole tank or two.

Mark

I prefer 30-35 degrees and flat, or 90 to the bar.

 

[eyolf]

When I was a kid, my dad used to file freehand, usually didn't even use a handle on the file.

I never could get good results. I got a Granberg file-n-joint, which eventually broke. I replaced it with a similar unit from Oregon.

I don't use it every time anymore, but still use it 3 or 4 times during the life of a chain, after hand-filing has gotten the cutters a little out of kilter. Its pretty easy to get a chain all squared away again with it. After years of practice I could probably get by without it, but I'm kinda anal about keeping the chain at optimum efficiency. It bothers me when the teeth aren't all exactly the same.

I think the little clamp-on file guages like the flat Oregon one are useless, more trouble than they're worth. Carlton's file-o-plate is better, and a lot cheaper than the Swedish roller types. I don't like them much, either, although they are probably a better "trainer" to get prepared to file by hand.

 

[TraditionalTool]

When I was a kid, my dad used to file freehand, usually didn't even use a handle on the file.

I have to disrespectfully point out that anyone who uses a file without a handle is asking to have the tang jammed in their palm. I know that chainsaw files are longer than other files, typically 8", but it is not wise to file without a handle, just too easy to poke yourself in the palm. Even if you jam a twig on the end, do at least that much.

but I'm kinda anal about keeping the chain at optimum efficiency. It bothers me when the teeth aren't all exactly the same.

If that's the case you would get really good at hand filing. The more you do it, the more comfortable you are with it. If you are anal about keeping the chains at optimal efficiency, that means you file them often. That would lead to good sharpening skills, IMO.

All of those gizmos and contraptions distract me from watching the very spot I should be while filing, at the tooth. Having some aerodynamic rod hanging off the end, or some rube goldberg contraption just complicated the issue. All of our mileage varies.

You could have the crappiest saw in the world, with a sharp chain that crappy saw will be cutting just fine. There's a lot to be said for keeping a sharp chain. Remember, your saw is only as good as it's chain is sharp.

 

[MR4WD]

I have to disrespectfully point out that anyone who uses a file without a handle is asking to have the tang jammed in their palm. I know that chainsaw files are longer than other files, typically 8", but it is not wise to file without a handle, just too easy to poke yourself in the palm. Even if you jam a twig on the end, do at least that much.

Don't palm the file, or file handle. Hold onto it like an axe or hockey stick or whatever. The reason there isn't teeth on the other end of the file is because you're supposed to support both ends of the file.

In any capacity, a callus or two and that file will fit nicely into your palm.

 

[BobL]

We have discussed the merits of filing vs. grinding, and chisel chain vs. semi-chisel chain. We have also discussed how full chisel chain is normally filed at a 10 degree 'down angle' (or ground with the vice tilted 10 degrees), while semi-chisel chain is filed/ground flat (sometimes referred to as a '0 degree down angle', sometimes as '90 degrees').

Since i never run full chisel chain, it never occurred to me that the 10 degree angle is difficult to file with the Oregon type file holders.

2 of the the file holders I have, have a flat section at the end of the file holder titled at 10º to the rest of the holder. I find if I start by holding that flat section square to the bar at the start of the stroke one does indeed get a 10º down angle. However I rarely use Oregon chain so I hardly ever need to use a down angle.

Because I'm mainly milling I also marked 10º top plate angle on my holders.

Seems to work fine.

 

[Butch(OH)]

"use a file" is great,,, if you can see. For us that can't I found a plate type guide to be a good crutch. I am purdy sure that the instructions with the flat plate type guides tell you to hold tham flat, not at 10 degrees for the reason Mark stated.

 

[wigglesworth]

IMO one should learn to file correctly without the guide/holder or any of the add on junk. I did, and I screwed up several chains before I got the hang of it, but now, I cant see myself doing it any other way. To me a guide is a crutch.

 

[sefh3]

Is this correct while using a Oregon 511???

 

[huskystihl]

I got to try that 25 degree top plate angle and 10 degree down angle.I have always done mine 35 degree top plate angle and 5 degree down angle.Does the 25,10 cut faster than 35,5?What would be the best angles for the fastest cutting chain in hard woods?

No your 35 deg is gonna cut faster but dull faster as well. I file or grind everything at 30 deg with 10 deg down which gives it a little more hook to compensate the 30 deg. If I have a ton of flushcuts i'll work a chain over at 25deg to hopefully get through the job without a file session or a chain swap.

 

[huskystihl]

Is this correct while using a Oregon 511???

Not usually. Each chain is different but your rsc's and other agressive chains are pretty much all the same. I keep my grinder set at 60deg and 30deg which assuming I dont hit a nail, fence row or some dirty wood I can usually cut all day. I use rsc lo-pro on my 200t and can usually cut for 2-3 days before it needs a good filing, but then again thats usually nice green wood up in the air.

 

[sefh3]

60 deg on the top and 30 deg on the bottom. I know there have been many questions about this lately so I was trying to help people with pics. I think mine is setup 60-30 but I'm at work not home.

 

[Gypo Logger]

The 10 degree tilt I think is designed to get the working corner as well as to clean the gullet. An exaggerated tilt of even 45 degrees either on the inside of the cutter or outside works well too for gullet work.
Gypo