echo cs-400 vs. stihl ms-250

[miking]

The 250 is made at the Va. Beach plant. Those guys know how to build a saw. The echo? maybe japan, china, haiti, somalia, etc, don't know or care. The 5 year warranty is BS, read the fine print. The echos are built well but it will be dead long before the Stihl. Don't let the homeowner construction of the 250 fool ya, great saw.

Which part of the warranty did you have a problem with?

 

[mountainlake]

The 250 is made at the Va. Beach plant. Those guys know how to build a saw. The echo? maybe japan, china, haiti, somalia, etc, don't know or care. The 5 year warranty is BS, read the fine print. The echos are built well but it will be dead long before the Stihl. Don't let the homeowner construction of the 250 fool ya, great saw.

So the 50 hour Stihl is going to outlast the 300 hours Echo, give me some common sence reasoning for the above statement. Steve

 

[mountainlake]

Hey Mike Sure is fun dealing with these guys that have nothing to back up what the say. Steve

 

[miking]

What gets me is that I've had STihls and Huskys too and all of them have needed some carb adjustments to run and cut to my satisfaction, but those guys bash Echos because they need proper tuning from the factory setting. All of them nowadays need a little tweak here and there, but for some reason Echos alone are the dogs for it. It's like they're saying 'It's okay if my brand needs it, but not yours' . It's not like it's a major deal, but in retrospect it does keep the costs lower huh?

 

[2000ssm6]

So the 50 hour Stihl is going to outlast the 300 hours Echo, give me some common sence reasoning for the above statement. Steve

It is a EPA rating. Not longevity. The echo will produce the numbers the epa likes for 300 hours, meaning it will run like poo until someone adjusts the carb and gets rid of the cat muffler. Personally, I could care less of how many hours the saw will produce the "epa friendly" numbers. You should too if you want a saw with power.:monkey:

 

[2000ssm6]

What gets me is that I've had STihls and Huskys too and all of them have needed some carb adjustments to run and cut to my satisfaction, but those guys bash Echos because they need proper tuning from the factory setting. All of them nowadays need a little tweak here and there, but for some reason Echos alone are the dogs for it. It's like they're saying 'It's okay if my brand needs it, but not yours' . It's not like it's a major deal, but in retrospect it does keep the costs lower huh?

You are correct about carb tuning, any brand needs it. What most here are used to with echo is just low power, it doesn't matter if the carb is tuned right or not. They build a good saw, just have always been on the bottom due to power output. I got an old cs-346 and yeah it's a turd. From what I have read here lately, the newer echos seem to have more power. Someone one at echo must have taken a Stihl apart to see what needs to be done.

 

[miking]

You are correct about carb tuning, any brand needs it. What most here are used to with echo is just low power, it doesn't matter if the carb is tuned right or not. They build a good saw, just have always been on the bottom due to power output. I got an old cs-346 and yeah it's a turd. From what I have read here lately, the newer echos seem to have more power. Someone one at echo must have taken a Stihl apart to see what needs to be done.

I can see that. "Keep your friends close and you enemies closer" sort of thing. Like I said, I have Stihls and Huskys as well as Echos and they all got their pros and cons but the power is no longer one of the Echo faults.

 

[mountainlake]

It is a EPA rating. Not longevity. The echo will produce the numbers the epa likes for 300 hours, meaning it will run like poo until someone adjusts the carb and gets rid of the cat muffler. Personally, I could care less of how many hours the saw will produce the "epa friendly" numbers. You should too if you want a saw with power.:monkey:

And Stilh wouldn't like to have a 300 hour rating on the MS250? The quality isn't there. If you don't think well tuned Echo saws have power you haven't run one. Every one I've will run all over Stihl home owner saws such as the 250. I'd be willing to bet that a stock CS400 40cc will outcut a stock MS250 45cc both tuned good with the same chain. Every Echo I've had apart has had closed port cylinders unlike cheap Stihls with open ports which don't make as much power per cc. Steve

 

[VI sawguy]

?????where do you get your info i agree with you 2000 i know they are built in va beach as i have been there, no stihl ever has or ever will be made in china lets not turn this into a saw bashing thread they both make good saws i think he just wants opinions and reasons supporting those opinions???? what is going on here

You do realize that Stihl has a very large factory in China building OPE, mostly trimmers and pressure washers but they do build saws and saw components there.

Oh, and I'd pick the CS-400 everytime over the MS-250

 

[huskystihl]

And Stilh wouldn't like to have a 300 hour rating on the MS250? The quality isn't there. If you don't think well tuned Echo saws have power you haven't run one. Every one I've will run all over Stihl home owner saws such as the 250. I'd be willing to bet that a stock CS400 40cc will outcut a stock MS250 45cc both tuned good with the same chain. Every Echo I've had apart has had closed port cylinders unlike cheap Stihls with open ports which don't make as much power per cc. Steve

I know your an echo guy and thats cool and if we were talking about the echos of old or weed whips I might maybe buy into this. But, my cheapo 211 has gotta have 300 hrs on it by now, it starts and basically runs 4 hrs a day and walks all over a muff modded richly tuned 370 and the 211 is stock. I've ran 670's the 80cc and they are underpowered overweight crapsacks. They may be reliable i'll give them that but every echo dealer I know carries another brand for saw customers. I just got back from florida and every landscape company I seen ran echo and for good reason but to compare their saws to stihl or husky is rediculous. To each their own but echo needs to truly come out with some HP if they wanna be players and quit relying on a 300hr rating that truly means squat in engine life, it's just an epa stroker.

 

[huskystihl]

You do realize that Stihl has a very large factory in China building OPE, mostly trimmers and pressure washers but they do build saws and saw components there.

Oh, and I'd pick the CS-400 everytime over the MS-250

Do you still get one of those snazzy tip guards and a lo pro chain with all the echos at home de pot?

 

[Eastexan]

?????where do you get your info i agree with you 2000 i know they are built in va beach as i have been there, no stihl ever has or ever will be made in china lets not turn this into a saw bashing thread they both make good saws i think he just wants opinions and reasons supporting those opinions???? what is going on here

Sure, first of all I'd like to say that I'm not a blind brand loyalist.
I have 5 chainsaws of which each are a different manufacturer. It just happened out that way. I bought each one for it's own purpose and each have been reliable to date.

Before I make an investment in something I need, I always try to research as best I can and try to make the best informed choice on what appeals to me.
I was looking for a chain saw in that same size range a while back and considered several makes and models, including these 2 that the OP is inquiring about.
I asked around for honest opinions from people who actually owned and ran the saws. And I also tried to find out from dealers for their honest opinion of the particular saw I was interested in.
I looked around for the different makes and models that I liked and then made the choice based on what I found out as to durability, dependability, ease of use, etc.

What was said in this thread about the EPA durability rating being only about emissions is misleading.
The numbers pertain to the minimum hour ability of a particular saw staying within the EPA emission specs. The EPA spec of 300 hours is the highest rating and the lowest is 50 hours.
In most instances, the higher end PRO saws of any brand name are given the 300 rating, whereas many of the lower-end saws are rated at 50.
I believe Stihl, Husky, Dolmar, and other brand PRO saws are all rated at 300.
BTW, I found it interesting that everything Echo makes is rated at 300.

The way I heard it explained was that the EPA rating goes hand in hand with build quality. As the saw wears out, the ability to stay within EPA emission guidelines also deteriorates.

I didn't decide on either of those two saws mentioned, although the Echo CS-400 was first runner up to the one I bought.

The Echo's are well made saws. They have a good reputation as to long term dependability and back that up with a good warranty.
I found out that they are all assembled in the US with engine blocks, etc., from Japan. Except for the new CS-310, which is made entirely in the US.
I found this out from a tech that works for ECHO Inc in Lake Zurich, Il.

Now, as for the Stihl MS250 being made in China.
I was told that it along with other low end Stihls are being made in a factory there.
One guy even sent me this link. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/295705524/MS_250_STIHL_Chainsaw.html

If you have actually seen MS250 saws being made at the Virginia plant then that's great.
But from what I understand, Stihl is only manufacturing their high-end PRO saws here in the US.

As I said before, I'm not a brand loyalist. I don't have a dog in this hunt, as I don't own either of those saws.
And even though the Stihl 250 is made in China, I still feel it's a good saw. It just wasn't the best choice IMHO.

 

[pgg]

Everything about echos is based on dodging, evasive marketing hype.
It's ALWAYS been the case with echos, ever since I first used them in the bush in late 70's anyway, when a typically sleazy echo salesman came out and convinced us all that echo was the way to go, and our useless orange XP huskys were yesterdays news.

Lo and behold, on the day our new shiny red demonstration echos appeared on the block, and we'd excitedly grabbed one each, eager with anticipation at just how great this wondrous echo brand was going to be, within a few short hours they'd all been thrown back into the truck in utter disgust, never to be used ever again. Gutless pieces of sh*t! Back to our 'useless' orange huskys we went..

None of the claims from echo ever run true. They'll inevitably stall in the cut if you put pressure on and always feel cheap and nasty within about one hour of hard use. It's a great lark, make an engine so weak that it can't even actually strain it's own cheap componentry, then claim them as a 'reliable' saw. Reliably weak is about all...

Echos can't handle serious work, that's all there is to it. 5 year warranty's and 300 hour whatevers are just a crock of crap. Any manufacturer that REFUSES TO DISCLOSE POWER RATINGS to it's customers is just so phony it's almost amusing.

I've run various echos fleetingly since, and nothing has changed, every year for the last 30 years I've heard the same old, same old garbage - "Oh, oh, echos are improved and they have power equal with other saws this year, they're a good choice now, AND they're only half the price of your stihl and husky bush saws!..."

I've run them and they're still just the ****** same as always! Nothing about echos has changed at all. Still weak and a piss-poor choice for anything other than casual light-duty stuff. At least these days they've stopped their B.S. claims of being professional grade chainsaws, so as a light duty saw they'll do OK, just like every other chainsaw on the market

 

[Rudedog]

Do you still get one of those snazzy tip guards and a lo pro chain with all the echos at home de pot?

Yes I did. (Said with head hung low). On the bright side I just bought a nice looking/good compression 024 to replace the Echo I have. I do like the Echo air filter. I'm not sure how effective it is, but it seems like a real improvement over your typical saw filter. My Echo isn't bad at all. I just like the Stihl's better.

 

[frogg]

thank ya`ll for the great info. what are limiter caps & how are they removed
& then what to do.?

got any pics for show & tell. also what is a cat muffler remove it & then what. ??

thanks

 

[mountainlake]

You crack me up. If you weren't so far away I would take you up on your offer. Then I would have am Echo saw that I can take back to Home Depot for a refund and buy some Christmas lights or something. He'll I'll eve out cut your saw with a 35cc Stihl.
Until you know what the rating means you need to quit embarasing yourself by trying to explain something you know nothing about. The rating is an emissions rating by the Epa not an engine rating.

I'm happy that you like Echo, to each their own. Just know what you are talking about before you type it.

Why don't you come up with a explaination that makes sence instead of bs, I'm certainly not embarrased by saying that a saw that will last long enough to make the 300 hour EPA test has way more quality than one that can olny make 50 hours. Do YOU think the MS250 and MS460 are the same quality, you should be embarrased. Steve

 

[mountainlake]

I know your an echo guy and thats cool and if we were talking about the echos of old or weed whips I might maybe buy into this. But, my cheapo 211 has gotta have 300 hrs on it by now, it starts and basically runs 4 hrs a day and walks all over a muff modded richly tuned 370 and the 211 is stock. I've ran 670's the 80cc and they are underpowered overweight crapsacks. They may be reliable i'll give them that but every echo dealer I know carries another brand for saw customers. I just got back from florida and every landscape company I seen ran echo and for good reason but to compare their saws to stihl or husky is rediculous. To each their own but echo needs to truly come out with some HP if they wanna be players and quit relying on a 300hr rating that truly means squat in engine life, it's just an epa stroker.

Take the glasses off , bring your Stihl saws over. I own 3 Stihls and have run a lot of them. Time for some education. Steve

 

[Saw Dr.]

I routinely perform maintenance on several 20 year old 025's. There are some in tree service use here also. I have never even seen a 20 year old cs-400, but I have seen several newer ones at the dump.

 

[mountainlake]

I routinely perform maintenance on several 20 year old 025's. There are some in tree service use here also. I have never even seen a 20 year old cs-400, but I have seen several newer ones at the dump.

Another good argument, have you seen a 20 year old MS261. I've seen newer Stihls at the dump too. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

Pound for pound/dollar for dollar, get the Echo CS-400. It's not one of the strongest running of the new Echo's, but at least as good as the MS-250 and can be had for under $200 on Ebay.

If you really want to step up a bit, at about the same price as the MS-250, move up to a CS-510/520 Echo. One of the favorite saws in my line-up here, been in service now since 2003, has many hundreds of tank-fulls of fuel thru it, and zero issues anyplace.

I have actually owned just about every saw in Echo's newer line-up, and can provide real experience with them, not an opinion based on running one of them and smoking the P/C because I was too stupid to give it some fuel over the lean EPA factory setting(s).

The reed-valve engine and horzontal P/C models are long obsoleted, but many folks still use them for comparison purposes when these topics come up. The newer piston ported upright P/C units are better everyplace. The CS-510/520's are the real "sleepers" in the Echo line-up, strong high rpm power and torque comparable to the Husqvarna and Stihl Pro models.

The CS-670 is just OK, as is the larger CS-800. The CS-440's are pretty decent, but not nearly as strong pound for pound as the slightly larger 510/520's.

CS-370/400's are high torque saws for the cc's, not high rpm. I LOVE working with the CS-370's we have here, very fuel efficient, broad/smooth power curve and dead solid reliable. They aren't high rpm "screamers", so don't expect that sort of power from them. They have PLENTY of grunt, and make excellent limbing and firewood saws for smaller limbs/logs.

We just finished up two commercial jobs involving over 60 treees, a LOT of limbing, and did most of it with the little Echo CS-360T. It ran flawlessly, and my helper Nathan really loves it, choosing it over the other 7 saws we had on site for most of the smaller work. Didn't grumble once, or develope a "death rattle" either, but we're trying as hard as we can to kill it!.....Cliff