What makes the MS 261 better than the 346 XP?

[rustyb]

One thing is for certain, you could have cut an aweful lot of wood since this thread was started:msp_ohmy:

Oh c'mon now! This gives you guys something to do while hiding from your boss....and it appeases my anal retentiveness!


Thanks for the additional info.

 

[rustyb]

I didn't time any of them, but the 346 sounded to be tuned way rich.

Can the 346 be tuned by ear and the color of the plug...or must one have a tach?

I ask as I recall you talking about this in another thread....something about the coil. I just don't remember the thread or exactly what was said.

 

[SawTroll]

Can the 346 be tuned by ear and the color of the plug...or must one have a tach?

I ask as I recall you talking about this in another thread....something about the coil. I just don't remember the thread or exactly what was said.

It is best to use a tach on a newer one, as they have rev limited coils, like most other newer saws.

 

[nmurph]

I finally got to watch the videos at work. I still can't see them at home. I would call it a dead heat as I would expect from three saws with such similar power specs. I know that is only a cookie cutting session and doesn't tell about the shape of the power curve. The 261 may have more power down low and about the same peak power. To mr it confirms that the best pick is the one that feels best in your hands and has the dealer support that you can live with.

 

[mweba]

i finally got to watch the videos at work. I still can't see them at home. I would call it a dead heat as i would expect from three saws with such similar power specs. I know that is only a cookie cutting session and doesn't tell about the shape of the power curve. The 261 may have more power down low and about the same peak power. To mr it confirms that the best pick is the one that feels best in your hands and has the dealer support that you can live with.

100% yup

 

[SawTroll]

I finally got to watch the videos at work. I still can't see them at home. I would call it a dead heat as I would expect from three saws with such similar power specs. I know that is only a cookie cutting session and doesn't tell about the shape of the power curve. The 261 may have more power down low and about the same peak power. To mr it confirms that the best pick is the one that feels best in your hands and has the dealer support that you can live with.

The really important power is above peak power RPM - certainly not below! When that is important, is when you either use a too small saw, or an overly optimistic bar & chain combination.

 

[Sagetown]

The really important power is above peak power RPM - certainly not below! When that is important, is when you either use a too small saw, or an overly optimistic bar & chain combination.

I'ieee...... You lost me there. I'm not to savy in chainsaw talk. What I relate to in power is when the saw is really getting into the wood and you've got plenty of trigger left to maintain a smooth rpm all the way through the tree. I like a saw that does that.

 

[SawTroll]

I'ieee...... You lost me there. I'm not to savy in chainsaw talk. What I relate to in power is when the saw is really getting into the wood and you've got plenty of trigger left to maintain a smooth rpm all the way through the tree. I like a saw that does that.

Well, I prefere the saw to go through the wood at above max hp rpm - what actually cuts wood is chain speed and cutter design/sharpness - nothing else. Hp and kW is a non-issue at that point, just academic numbers.......:msp_wink:

 

[Andyshine77]

Well, I prefere the saw to go through the wood at above max hp rpm - what actually cuts wood is chain speed and cutter design/sharpness - nothing else. Hp and kW is a non-issue at that point, just academic numbers.......:msp_wink:

Haha Niko my friend you must be really bored today.

 

[SawTroll]

Haha Niko my friend you must be really bored today.

That is true to a degree, as I got po'ed by doctors, and have another appointment on wednesday - an MR this time, of the lower back and the left hip.

What I said is still true though!

 

[Terry Syd]

So ST likes a saw with lots of 'overrun', that is, a saw that doesn't sign off after it hits peak HP. I can understand that as it extends the usable powerband (good on a bike at the end of a straight)

Two engines may have the same advertised peak HP, but one of them may have more staying power. However, HP is defined as the ability to do work and thus both engines have the same peak capacity for work.

I prefer an engine with lots of area 'under the curve', that is, a good stretch of RPM between max torque and peak HP. For the hardwood I cut that makes a more forgiving saw to work with (and such an engine does not preclude it from having a long overrun).

People can debate technical issues until they are blue in the face, but it often comes down to individual preferences for the particular work we are doing.

Edit: It would be interesting to test a MS 261 where the intake timing was matched to the strato timing. I expect that the powerband would extend out to where even ST liked it.

 

[procarbine2k1]

So ST likes a saw with lots of 'overrun', that is, a saw that doesn't sign off after it hits peak HP. I can understand that as it extends the usable powerband (good on a bike at the end of a straight)

Two engines may have the same advertised peak HP, but one of them may have more staying power. However, HP is defined as the ability to do work and thus both engines have the same peak capacity for work.

I prefer an engine with lots of area 'under the curve', that is, a good stretch of RPM between max torque and peak HP. For the hardwood I cut that makes a more forgiving saw to work with (and such an engine does not preclude it from having a long overrun).

People can debate technical issues until they are blue in the face, but it often comes down to individual preferences for the particular work we are doing.

Edit: It would be interesting to test a MS 261 where the intake timing was matched to the strato timing. I expect that the powerband would extend out to where even ST liked it.

Well said! The MS261 has a pretty fat powerband, couldnt be happier with it. I'm not a brand loyalist, but am very fond with it. I dont have much of a need for a small saw, but this one fit the bill and more than cuts its share.

 

[mountainlake]

The really important power is above peak power RPM - certainly not below! When that is important, is when you either use a too small saw, or an overly optimistic bar & chain combination.

Saws shouldn't be run over peak hp RPM when cutting and it's sure nice when they hang in there at a little lower RPM unlike some Husky saws. Like, look at me my saw is running 12000 RPM but not cutting crapola. Steve

 

[MCW]

Both are smooth with a slight edge going to the 261 if any. You have to take into consideration....the chattering in the vid may be operator error.

Funny thing with everyone that ran all three of those saws at the GTG. Only one person said the 261 wasn't the fastest. Turns out in the vid it was equal or slower. Take that for what its worth.

If I had the choice again, I would by the 5100 or 5105:hmm3grin2orange: Some say I'm wrong in the head though

I most definately would not say you are wrong in the head at all. Despite my fondness of the 261 (not just it's torque but mainly it's excellent filter) I am a BIG fan of my 5100-S. I used it on the weekend for the first time in ages and I'd forgotten just how good this little thing really is. If the little Dolmar's filter was up to scratch in my conditions I most certainly would NOT have bought a 261.
The 261 is like my 660. It does everything well but lacks excitement and character but unlike the 660 I won't be selling the 261. I like the bang, pop, and throttle response of my Huskies and Dolmars but the 261 is a damn fine saw, it just lacks a bit of character This isn't a hit at Stihl, my 200T has heaps of character and bang, pop etc

I have a Husky 353 also and it's a nice little saw too. I'd rate the 261 as best in the vibes department followed by the 5100-S and 353 equal second. Vibes don't really concern me though.

 

[SawTroll]

Saws shouldn't be run over peak hp RPM when cutting and it's sure nice when they hang in there at a little lower RPM unlike some Husky saws. Like, look at me my saw is running 12000 RPM but not cutting crapola. Steve

Well, when you get well below max hp rpm, the cutting won't be very fast anyway - and that is often caused by too much bar & chain on the saw. Of course you can run them that way if you wish to, but performance will be well below what is possible. I maintain that a good top end is more important than a good low end - but it surely is nice to have both!

If your saw runs at 12K in the wood, it will cut very fast, provided the chain is up to it.

 

[mountainlake]

Well, when you get well below max hp rpm, the cutting won't be very fast anyway - and that is often caused by too much bar & chain on the saw. Of course you can run them that way if you wish to, but performance will be well below what is possible. I maintain that a good top end is more important than a good low end - but it surely is nice to have both!

If your saw runs at 12K in the wood, it will cut very fast, provided the chain is up to it.

If you run it at 12000 rpm it won't cut fast at all, both hp and torque are down, when you get below peak hp rpm torque will increase, at least on good saws like Stihls and Echo's. Watch some of B snellings vids, he does cuts a higher rpm and then pushing harder, the pushing harder cuts faster unless he pushes real hard. Steve

 

[MCW]

If you run it at 12000 rpm it won't cut fast at all, both hp and torque are down, when you get below peak hp rpm torque will increase, at least on good saws like Stihls and Echo's. Watch some of B snellings vids, he does cuts a higher rpm and then pushing harder, the pushing harder cuts faster unless he pushes real hard. Steve

All things being equal faster chain speed equals faster cutting but you are correct in some cases.
For example my modded 660 vs. a stock 660 showed very little cutting speed improvement despite the modded saw pulling 2,000 more rpm in the cut (both saws fitted with tachos). Lean into it and it's a different story.

Good saws like Stihls and Echos??? They are good saws but no better than Huskies or Dolmars etc etc.

Oh and by the way with a good chain and some decent load that modded 660 has no dramas pulling 12,000rpm in the cut whilst cutting very very fast. And it was built by Sir Snelling as well

 

[rustyb]

I have a Husky 353 also and it's a nice little saw too. I'd rate the 261 as best in the vibes department followed by the 5100-S and 353 equal second. Vibes don't really concern me though.

Thread has gotten so long I have forgotten if you responded before. Forgive me if you have. If not, what's your take on the 346...not only in vibes, but over all compared to the 261?

 

[rustyb]

It is best to use a tach on a newer one, as they have rev limited coils, like most other newer saws.

What does the rev limited coil do and why is it there?

I see tachs are $100. That would negate the $90 savings I'd see on the 346 over the 261.

Do I recall Snelling mentioning a different coil?

Can anyone help me understand all this?

If I go with the 346, I don't want to be surprised with the need to spend a bunch of money on it for optimal performance. That happened to me with my 260 and the carb.

 

[MuleyJ]

What does the rev limited coil do and why is it there?

I see tachs are $100. That would negate the $90 savings I'd see on the 346 over the 261.

Do I recall Snelling mentioning a different coil?

Can anyone help me understand all this?

If I go with the 346, I don't want to be surprised with the need to spend a bunch of money on it for optimal performance. That happened to me with my 260 and the carb.

You don't need a tach to tune the saw. They are nice to have just to fiddle with. The rev limited coil on the 346 limits the rpm of the saw to 14,300rpm thats what was stamped on mine anyway. No matter how lean you tune the high side the saw won't turn faster than where the coil limits out. For most situations you should be well shy of that while the saw is working with a proper tune, and short of holding the throttle wide open no load you likely won't ever turn the saw that fast. The limited coils can make it more difficult to hear where the saw begins to 4-stroke and where it hits the limit of the coil while tuning. If you combine a couple of the tactics mentioned in some of the tuning threads you should manage OK on an unmodded saw. You can pick up a non-limited(black) coil for pretty cheap if you think you need one or want to mod the saw. Most of the 3xx era Husky saws share the same coil, though you might need to swap wires in some cases. There are some great how to threads on tuning a carb and I'm sure the wav sound file from Madsens can be found in many other threads. The first thing that I would do before worrying about the tach or coil would be to make sure you have a non-cat muffler if you go with the 346. Bottom line is get the saw that YOU like, no doubt either of the two are more than up to near any task no mods required. Good luck!