Aftermarket Cylinder... good and bad... the Truth!

[roostersgt]

Polar Bear guy, I'm not following you at all. I've posted that I can build a rock solid saw using "good" used OEM cylinders along with a AM piston w/Caber rings for less than $100. Done it more than a dozen times. That is 33% cheaper ($50) than the questionable quality AM kits being offered for $150, and about the same price as many of the entirely questionable crap shoot kits found on Ebay. My experiences have proven to me that OEM cylinders are the way to go. Also, I stated that new Stihl OEM cylinder and piston kits (in the box) are easily found on Ebay for around $150, the same price as the AM kits. Why would one use AM if one could use OEM for the same price, or within $10-$20 difference?

I'm unsure if you're trying to say I don't know what I'm doing, or not, but I haven't burned up any of the 40+ saws I've rebuilt, so I guess I may know something about what causes them to melt down. Saws aint that difficult and this thread isn't about saw failure diagnostics, it's about AM cylinders and their quality, or lack thereof. Why are you bothering me? I'm trying very hard to play nicely. Now, move along and pick a fight with someone else.

 

[bucknfeller]

I notice you don't include saving them money. By your way of thinking (that you don't care why it doesn't work, it just doesn't) why wouldn't you just advise them to buy a new saw when the old one quit working? No need to troubleshoot anything because a stock saw lasts forever, right?

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

Polar Bear guy, I'm not following you at all. I've posted that I can build a rock solid saw using "good" used OEM cylinders along with a AM piston w/Caber rings for less than $100. Done it more than a dozen times. That is 33% cheaper ($50) than the questionable quality AM kits being offered for $150, and about the same price as many of the entirely questionable crap shoot kits found on Ebay. My experiences have proven to me that OEM cylinders are the way to go. Also, I stated that new Stihl OEM cylinder and piston kits (in the box) are easily found on Ebay for around $150, the same price as the AM kits. Why would one use AM if one could use OEM for the same price, or within $10-$20 difference?

I'm unsure if you're trying to say I don't know what I'm doing, or not, but I haven't burned up any of the 40+ saws I've rebuilt, so I guess I may know something about what causes them to melt down. Saws aint that difficult and this thread isn't about saw failure diagnostics, it's about AM cylinders and their quality, or lack thereof. Why are you bothering me? I'm trying very hard to play nicely. Now, move along and pick a fight with someone else.

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[hoeyrd2110]

i'm so happy this thread is finally an informative peice of info and not a sh*t slinging contest....oh wait deja vu:deadhorse:

 

[indiansprings]

Hat's off to watsonr, an individual has taken the aftermarket kits further along than some major supplier's/ other sponsors have in four or five years of jacking around with version one thru God only what version their on now, even as a dealer it is great to see a guy willing to back them up for 90 days, as someone else mentioned that would cut more than 90 % of the wood the people who beech the loudest about aftermarket cut. As I mentioned before Randy just get your supplier to EDM cut the ports like Echo, not that it makes a darn in performance but would look pretty and get most to shut up about port shape. I see so many saws that come in and we can't put A/M on due to our dealer agreement and if I don't have a good used one around I'll pass them on to you and if they can't put it on I'll have them bring it in and charge a very nominal fee for showing them how to do it. I've got to get busy and become a sponsor so I can legally list all the used oem cylinders and pistons for those who won't use yours. Again applaud your honesty and willingness to back up what you sell, we do the same thing, dont' like it, ship it back in the same shape for 100% refund, that is how business should be done. I may have to set up a business under another LLC for those that can't afford a new oem jug and slug or saw, most who beech don't realize how tight funds are for the majority of the folks out there at least in this part of the country. They just want something that will get their firewood cut, keep up the good work, your come farther than anyone I've seen on here since I joined.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Howdy,
Sorry, I thought the way my eyes were bleeding I had read all the posts. I was referring to who was actually manufacturing, wholesaling, and retailing them. If anybody wants to ask specific, or direct questions, I'll answer the best I can with what I know just like always.
Regards
Gregg

Evidently needed a transfusion by post 367 or thereabouts and missed a couple of very direct questions on the subject?

No need for you to write a book and make my own eyes bleed and brain twist too much more trying to read or decipher it under such convoluted circumstances. I'm just interested in the facts and the "truth" by anyone who can legitimately offer both in this thread.

Still sorta waiting for that premise to take shape over the typical pissing up a rope and inside comment bulls**t like everyone else already knows the answers and those of us who are asking legit questions are the odd folks out....and trying to keep in context the thread itself is actually a sales pitch buy a member/sponsor to begin with.

So.... (and obviously in the best interests of the community without any agenda)....

> How is the A, B, or C designation established for a given AM top end product, and who does it? Is it a
> tolerance spec, or just an arbitrary and subjective observation? And when does it generally happen in the process?
> And what are the actual differences among the designations?

Answers by anyone who can offer em while I continue scratching my head wondering where the truth and the facts really are in this thread are welcomed.

So far it's all sales wank and opinion....and a coupla pics I offered as examples of what I'd consider a lousy product that was actually endorsed as having good timing numbers, great plating, and should clean up real well according to a couple of participants in this thread.

Ok. Fine.

However...

I didn't buy the kit as a project in and of itself. I just wanted to bolt it onto a 361 without having to take the Dremel to it or buy a Fordam for the upper transfers to simply put the freekin' saw back together.

So is this an "A", "B", or "C" cylinder?

Simple, direct question.

opcorn:

 

[thomas1]

Polar Bear guy, I'm not following you at all.

I will try to address this in order so it is easier for you to follow.

I'm not really sure why the performance is always lower with the kit cylinders. Ports? Squish? Compression? I don't know. I don't trust the readings on my compression testers either, and I don't waste time measuring other things I don't have the knowledge or skills to change.

You stated that you have used AM parts and they were lower performing, yet you also say that you cannot be bothered to figure out why. How are you determining that the original parts need replaced if your can't be bothered to find out why the parts aren't working?

Saws aint that difficult and this thread isn't about saw failure diagnostics, it's about AM cylinders and their quality, or lack thereof. Why are you bothering me?

This thread is about a sponsor trying to sell parts and looking for constructive criticism, your input, so far, has been to tell people not to buy his parts without giving any reason other than you perceived them to perform at a lower level then the OEM. I have not seen where you gave any evidence to back this up, did I miss it somewhere?

I'm trying very hard to play nicely. Now, move along and pick a fight with someone else.

Why is hard for you to be nice? Just because someone disagrees with you and asks you questions is no reason to be anything but nice. I'm sorry that you feel that anyone who doesn't blanketly accept what you say as the gospel is fighting with you.

I would suggest that unless you have something to add other than "Don't buy aftermarket parts" you should probably focus on a different thread. The repetition of your mantra doesn't seem to be helping the discussion and you don't seem willing to add anything constructive.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
If we bought different quality kits on purpose, we would certainly market them that way. Most of our kits are NWP branded and all come from the same manufacturer in Taiwan by the name of Easysaw. One thing you have to remember about this part of the world is that whole businesses start, and stop like traffic here. You would seriously need a scorecard to keep up with it. We do carry some others that I like the quality on but, are not made Easysaw. I buy these kits from brokers rather than manufacturers so I don't know the origin. The kits I'm talking about are prefixed with CKN. The ones that come to mind are the CKN 262"s which are really nice nikasil kits but, we just don't sell enough to build a thousand through Easysaw. We also carry the Meteor branded, Stens kits, and we'll be soon be adding the Raisman brand kits. We have already, and will in the future market these kits under their own brand name. The warranty on any brand other than the NWP will carry the Bailey's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, so even if you don't like the way it parts it's hair, we'll have your back for full credit, refund, or exchange.
We've always had a 1 year warranty on the NWP brand. NWP is a brand name owned by Easysaw. When we originally started doing the aftermarket cylinder kits, they were sold under the Woodsman PRO brand. we had so many issues with consistency, we had to can the brand. We told Easysaw that if the NWP brand was going to start off, and continue be successful, it will be on them to make a quality product. We at best tell them what to make but, they have to maintain the integrity of the product.
As far as the one year warranty on the NWP branded product goes, we will pretty much give a person a one-time pass on a (the customer is always right mentality) replacement. As a general rule we find that the most folks in our industry are pretty honest, and not looking for a freebie, or some kind of handout. We tell them to hang on to the failed unit, and send another one. This step can be pretty much done by anybody who picks up the phone during business hours. If you fail a second one, you'll end up talking to one of our tech's to try and find out what's going on. If the tech can't determine exactly what happened, we'll send a label to pick up our kits, and their original cylinder and piston if they have it. Once we get our hands on them we pretty much know what went on. Once we're satisfied that it isn't our kit, we'll offer credit, refund, or one last replacement with the understanding that if they don't fix what's failing the top ends. this kit will look like the other two, and the original in no time. It doesn't come to this too often but, some people just don't get it, and nothing we can do will fix that.
What I have on the plate for the future is some gender benders for the 044,046, and 066 in the form of quad port top ends for them. At this point I have no Idea when they'll happen. If you've followed any of our product developments on here before, you know it's painstakingly slow but, it eventually happens.
Regards
Gregg

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Missed this prior to editing my last post indicating a desire for more detail on all this stuff. Keep it coming from anywhere/anyone that offers credible clarification.:msp_thumbup:

That stated, there are still a few unanswered questions in my previous post.

 

[tlandrum]

greg it sounds to me like your headed toward a performance aftermarket cylinder with the quad port idea. ill be onboard with that if it comes to lite.

 

[Trx250r180]

is it getting warm in here or is it just me ?

 

[H 2 H]

is it getting warm in here or is it just me ?

It's the flu that's going around

 

[blsnelling]

Gregg, thanks for the straight up answers, without all the sales hype. I've always appreciated your honesty and customer service.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I would suggest that unless you have something to add other than "Don't buy aftermarket parts" you should probably focus on a different thread. The repetition of your mantra doesn't seem to be helping the discussion and you don't seem willing to add anything constructive.

Likewise, mang.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Oh the winds of change.....interested to see which way the breeze blows a year from now.



Still OEM for me..:alien2:

 

[blsnelling]

I'd be all over some quality high-performance AM cylinders. I'm willing to pay for quality. A quad-port 460 would be right up my alley

 

[Tzed250]

I can attest to the fact that Bailey's customer service is outstanding.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Oh the winds of change.....

Geezus...., just another freekin' fart joke?:msp_wink:

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

It's the flu that's going around

More like diarrhea in this thread , bro.

 

[Mastermind]

I can attest to the fact that Bailey's customer service is outstanding.

That is a fact.

 

[Eric Modell]

So Brad are you saying the after market kits that you built, with long winded post for Gregg , a long time ago was just advertizing for Baileys?

I thought you backed them and led the public to believe they were a good value, you and Bailey's invested a lot of time and money devloping the kits that are available today!

When and why did you chagne your mind on value of the after market.