Trx250r180
Saw polisher
ok another qwestion ,why does my 044 with 200 psi pull over a lot easier than my 660 with 200 psi ? does piston bore make that much of a difference on cylinder pressure ?
This 066 Grenaded........What The Hell Happened???????
- Thread starter Mastermind
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It has a lot to do with the diameter of the rotor holding the rope.
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
It takes a bigger starter and more amperage to turn over a larger engine in 4 stroke world. It should be the same in 2 stroke world. Embarassingly, I don't think I could pull over my 200psi 93cc saw. The 85cc with 175 I can do with little problem (not pushing the magic button)
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
This turned out to be a hell of a good thread. The way we have had an excellent discussion about a sometimes touchy subject is great.
Thanks for all who participated. I learned a few things from the links provided.......yes, I read them all.
Thanks for all who participated. I learned a few things from the links provided.......yes, I read them all.
200psi= 200 pounds per square inch. The more square inches there are the more pounds required to push the piston through the compression cycle. A 660 has more square inches than an 044.
And Brad is right that if the pull cord wraps around a pulley of larger diameter, you will have a greater mechanical advantage.
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
Right. Why not send Amsoil the bill to repair the 066, claiming that the owner's saw was blown because of Amsoil's misleading marketing claims? Might get someone's attention and perhaps the 100:1 garbage will be taken out of their sales literature.This turned out to be a hell of a good thread...
SierraWoodsman
ArboristSite Guru
You still Recommend adding 3 OZ of "Torco accelerator" to your 87 octane/32:1 H1R per Mix Gallon?
I've been following this suggestion to the letter since getting the saws back from you Randy.
Yesterday Let my little girl try out the 346xp to pick out and cut the Christmas tree. Heck, come to think of it
I don't think I've seen anyone run that little saw and not crack a smile
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
I'm not worried about the repair bill. I wanted to try to get some people's attention here on this forum. If this saw's demise and this thread help folks see that paying careful attention to their oil selection and mix ratios can make their saws life a long and happy life, well then this was time and money well spent.
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
You still Recommend adding 3 OZ of "Torco accelerator" to your 87 octane/32:1 H1R per Mix Gallon?
I've been following this suggestion to the letter since getting the saws back from you Randy.
Yesterday Let my little girl try out the 346xp to pick out and cut the Christmas tree. Heck, come to think of it
I don't think I've seen anyone run that little saw and not crack a smile
The Torco is just added insurance. Is it really needed? I'm not so sure.
I started using that when we had some trouble with an overly hot 395XP. It was later determined that the saw's trouble was from a fuel line that was routed incorrectly. I've stopped using Torco in the last month to see how the saws fair......the cooler weather is a good time to try something new. So far, I can't tell any difference......but I've not done a huge amount of cutting either.
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
You still Recommend adding 3 OZ of "Torco accelerator" to your 87 octane/32:1 H1R per Mix Gallon?
I've been following this suggestion to the letter since getting the saws back from you Randy.
Yesterday Let my little girl try out the 346xp to pick out and cut the Christmas tree. Heck, come to think of it
I don't think I've seen anyone run that little saw and not crack a smile
The Torco is just added insurance. Is it really needed? I'm not so sure.
I started using that when we had some trouble with an overly hot 395XP. It was later determined that the saw's trouble was from a fuel line that was routed incorrectly. I've stopped using Torco in the last month to see how the saws fair......the cooler weather is a good time to try something new. So far, I can't tell any difference......but I've not done a huge amount of cutting either.
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
I know. What gets me is that Amsoil will still continue marketing 100:1 and those who aren't members of AS will likely see their saws damaged, stock or modded, if they buy into these claims.
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
You don't really think they would listen to me do you?
I'm sure it's been contested MANY times. Opti-2 does the same thing.
My BIL bought a new Yamaha Banshee in 1989. We road together for years. He ran Opti-2 at 100:1 from day 1. The Banshee is the highest revving, most powerful 2-stroke quad ever made. He road it like he stole it. I'm talking speed shifting wide open runs in the sand dunes, icy country roads, circle track racing in fields, etc. Over the years, I did the topends on it twice. It never once seized. It finally locked the main crank bearings up after nearly 20 years. We replaced the crank and he's still running the same mix today.
I tried many times over the years to get him to switch oils and mix ratio. But what he is doing has worked so long that he won't switch. BTW, his quad is 100% stock.
On the other hand, my Banshee was highly modified and I ran Maxima Castor 927 at 32:1, exclusively. I never seized a piston or damaged a crank.
To this day, I can't understand how that machine runs like it does. It's still going today.
I would NEVER do what he's done, and would highly recommend against anything similar. While it's contrary to most everything we think we know...it's worked for him. However, it does make for an interesting story to those of us that are far more anal and careful about these kinds of things.
My BIL bought a new Yamaha Banshee in 1989. We road together for years. He ran Opti-2 at 100:1 from day 1. The Banshee is the highest revving, most powerful 2-stroke quad ever made. He road it like he stole it. I'm talking speed shifting wide open runs in the sand dunes, icy country roads, circle track racing in fields, etc. Over the years, I did the topends on it twice. It never once seized. It finally locked the main crank bearings up after nearly 20 years. We replaced the crank and he's still running the same mix today.
I tried many times over the years to get him to switch oils and mix ratio. But what he is doing has worked so long that he won't switch. BTW, his quad is 100% stock.
On the other hand, my Banshee was highly modified and I ran Maxima Castor 927 at 32:1, exclusively. I never seized a piston or damaged a crank.
To this day, I can't understand how that machine runs like it does. It's still going today.
I would NEVER do what he's done, and would highly recommend against anything similar. While it's contrary to most everything we think we know...it's worked for him. However, it does make for an interesting story to those of us that are far more anal and careful about these kinds of things.
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Eccentric
Mister Wizard
You guys have all got that one right. A piston with more surface area (larger diameter) will require more force to push through that 200PSI. Just like a hydraulic ram with a larger piston exerts more force at a given hydro pressure.
Also a pulley with a larger effective diameter (how far from center the rope is where it meets the pulley) will have more leverage to turn the crank against that pressure. A good example is a little 41cc Homelite Super E-Z. I've seen them blow over 180PSI with a fresh set of rings. The effective diameter of the starter pulley on those is about 1.5-2". They are NOT easy to pull over without the comp release open. They also 'feel' like they have great compression even when heavily scored and blowing about 110PSI.
A 288XP has a relatively small starter pulley for the displacement. My McCulloch Super 250 (87cc) blows about 165PSI, yet is MUCH easier to pull over than a 288XP (also 87cc) blowing similar #'s. The old Mac's starter pulley is probably close to an inch larger in diameter than what's on the 288XP.
After reading all these replies I'm reminded of my shop teacher in high school telling us that replacing a fouled spark plug is way cheaper than replacing a blown motor. Granted, finding the happy medium for everybody's likes is a chore but erring on the generous side is less likely to cause expensive damage which leads to down time, possible loss of some income and the big stress maker, frustration. Just MHO.
albert
Addicted to ArboristSite
Some need to find out the hard way. Most who try the 80-100:1's claim just don't blindly try it. They read claims on the net and hear some stories of pros using it in wackers and such. They also are told by dealers and sharp mechanics not to run less oil than 50:1, but do so anyway. Yes some stock low power light load ope will survive on it, but to expect a saw, especially a ported one to live very long is a pipe dream.
Philip Wheelock
Finis Origine Pendet
Probably not worth your time, the envelope, or the stamp. The fact that there is good information about this issue on AS is significant. Can't fix everything in the world...
Mastermind
Work Saw Specialist
I think Brad proved a point. Two top ends and a crank on his BIL's......on his nothing was needed...
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
so if my thinking caps on strait ,in theory if my 660 is harder to pull over than the 044 ,the 660 would have more of a chance of detonation having the larger bore ? maybe why my 250cc atv had to have race fuel to not ping ? all 3 engines with around 200 psi
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