The Stihl 362 disappointment

[Stihlofadeal64]

I tend to agree with the mix/carb setting scenario being a problem. That being said I'd also say that it is a significant problem being that it took only 6 months to develop this severity...
I am also wondering why the dealer rep has to look at it, none of the shop guys can tell?
Or is it a warranty clearance (they fix it on their dime deal?)

 

[z71mike]

So much unnecessary damage occurs everyday because OPE owners rely solely on their dealers for carb tuning, once in a blue moon. If people would just take 15 minutes to learn how to tune a carb themselves.....

 

[MustangMike]

I am not there when the gas is mixed, my "asuumtion" would be that it is mixed close to 50:1 but when the gas tank wont hold an even 2.5 or 5 gal that it is mixed heavier on the oil. We typically run 2 saws and keep 1 spare on the truck and a MS250 pole saw for trimming trucks. I would think that a gas problem would show up in all the saws near the same time but that dosent seem to be the case.

I keep the the carb adjustments as they are from the factory and do not adjust them. if there is a problem i let the dealer adjust them.
The dealer agrees with the operator error.

Sounds like the gas mix is the likely problem. If you run a MS 460 on high test gas properly mixed with Stihl synthetic oil, and properly maintain it, I would bet good money you could not kill that saw within a year. If you are running low octane gas and non synthetic oil I would expect these problems with hard use. Either pay now (for good fuel) or pay later (replace saws). I have seen some old 044s with timber company numbers branded on them that look like they have been through Hell and back, and they still run! Ditto for similar size Huskys.

I would not expect a MS 362 to stand up to any use that would kill a MS 460, it just is not going to happen. The advantage for the 362 is to save weight.

MustangMike

 

[MustangMike]

Bought a brand new Stihl 362 in July of 2013. Took it to the shop yesterday, Jan. 10 2014, because it would not start. The dealer tore it down to find carbon on top of the piston so thick it was hitting the top of the cylinder, 2 broke cylinder bolts and 1 was loose one. I asked what caused this and was told "gas. (well the saw wont run without it)This saw was recomended to me by a Stihl Product Specialist after I complained that my saws weren't lasting much longer than 6 months. I was running Stihl 460.I will tell you that i do run my saws hard, topping 8 to 10 loads of hardwood per saw in the average day. I was told to expect more than 6 months of use from this saw for my application. I buy my gas 2-1/ to 5 gal at a time and was told only to use fresh gas and mix it according to the mixing oil ( I only use Stihl in the orange bottle) instructions.
Stihl rep said it would be about 2 weeks before he could look at the saw and see if he could help me with it. SO i will update after that and let everyone what they say and do or don't do.

Instead of waiting around i went and bought a bigger saw, 70cc or so, from a different manufacturer. I will see if i can get more than 6 months from a different brand of saw.

I checked my inventory, the orange bottle is the non synthetic oil, the synthetic is in a grey bottle. I believe they recommend the synthetic in the newer saws. Although my old 044 ran great on regular gas and the orange bottle stuff for years, I would not use it in a new saw. When technology improves (like synthetic oil) go with it.

For example, in a car I would rather have synthetic oil with 15,000 miles than conventional oil with 3,000 miles. Some people may disagree with this, but it has worked for me.

MustangMike

 

[KenJax Tree]

Even with the oil in the orange bottle if its mixed right and the saw is tuned its gonna be pretty hard to blow it up.


Sent from my Autotune Carb

 

[066blaster]

Were you running a long bar on the 362. The last time I ran a 25 inch on my 290. It ran so rich the air filter was soaked with gas and oil. But was perfectly tuned with the 18 inch.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

Unless I'm missing something, he isn't really "wearing them out", so much as it sounds like he's running them on the "break in tune" until the carbon deposits break something. And judging from the fuel comments the OP made, he has no idea what mix they get, only that its often oil heavy.

Sounds like yet another oil/mix thread. I think I'd be looking at the mix process, and learning to tune your carb.

Just curious, what do the spark plugs look like out of these machines?

 

[Steve NW WI]

Someone asked, so I looked. Stihl's commercial warranty is 90 days. Husky (and likely J-red) is 6 months on XP saws, commercial or not. Dolmar is also 90 days commercial use.

 

[bluchz]

What killed the 460, i am starting to feel like i know nothing about chains saws and mixing gas we run 89 octane gas mixed with stihl oil from the orange bottle. I have been told that we have run saws with clogged air filters( allowing the engine to pull dirty air in?), poorly mixed gas, bad gas, run the saw too low on gas(trying to get the last out of the tank to finish a cut) most of the damage is seen as piston/cylinder damage on the exhaust side.
The dealer rep is looking into the problem because the saw is no longer under warranty, he want to keep my business i hope, and he told me he would help to work out the problems i'm having with the saws. He suggested this saw to me saying it was the right size for the job and that we should expect to get better performance if we solved our previous issues, bad gas, dirty air,improper operation. I feel that we try to mix the gas as best we can aren't intentionally abusing the saws and should get longer life than we have been. I have tried to do all the thing recomended by the dealer in the past and realize that for new employees there is a learning curve, havent changed employees in almost 2 years.
I can tell you that i currently have 5 saws in my shop for parts and rebuilding and have gotten rid of at least 5 more that were "junked" and the dealer has told me that all were operator error.

 

[z71mike]

Sounds like you need to operate like a union shop. Periodic re-training. Every month or biweekly. A little of your time now will save you money later in equipment cost. You could even offer to pay your dealer to conduct the training for you. Educate your employees.

 

[F.W.P.T]

I wonder what the muff screens looked like? Probably plugged up. There are loggers on various forums with thousands of hrs on their Stihls and no problems outside of regular maintenance. With the piston being all gunked up maybe time to consider some spAmsoil @ 100:1! Just kiddin. I like the ultra (silver bottle) !

 

[SawTroll]

Some times I wonder how ignorant and careless it is possible to be - and this is one of them....

 

[angelo c]

What killed the 460, i am starting to feel like i know nothing about chains saws and mixing gas we run 89 octane gas mixed with stihl oil from the orange bottle. I have been told that we have run saws with clogged air filters( allowing the engine to pull dirty air in?), poorly mixed gas, bad gas, run the saw too low on gas(trying to get the last out of the tank to finish a cut) most of the damage is seen as piston/cylinder damage on the exhaust side.
The dealer rep is looking into the problem because the saw is no longer under warranty, he want to keep my business i hope, and he told me he would help to work out the problems i'm having with the saws. He suggested this saw to me saying it was the right size for the job and that we should expect to get better performance if we solved our previous issues, bad gas, dirty air,improper operation. I feel that we try to mix the gas as best we can aren't intentionally abusing the saws and should get longer life than we have been. I have tried to do all the thing recommend by the dealer in the past and realize that for new employees there is a learning curve, havent changed employees in almost 2 years.
I can tell you that i currently have 5 saws in my shop for parts and rebuilding and have gotten rid of at least 5 more that were "junked" and the dealer has told me that all were operator error.

hey Bluchz,
I have an idea. You say you have 5 saws broken down on the bench at the shop. lets assume they are all run in similarly rough fashion...assuming your boss will let you, can you take the muffler off say a 460 or so. take a few picks and with a little help I bet we can narrow your issues down to reasonable( since the saws are blown maybe you can break one down to let us see the crank ect) . I gotta be honest I don't know too many guys that do not expect to get better then 6 months out of a New Stihl MS 460 unless they are running them in concrete. or a similar grit laden environment.
can you just pull a saw off the rack and snap a pic of the chain...id be interested in seeing who and how the chains are maintained. plenty of loggers get much better times out of saws then 6 months.

 

[bluchz]

Unless I'm missing something, he isn't really "wearing them out", so much as it sounds like he's running them on the "break in tune" until the carbon deposits break something. And judging from the fuel comments the OP made, he has no idea what mix they get, only that its often oil heavy.

Sounds like yet another oil/mix thread. I think I'd be looking at the mix process, and learning to tune your carb.

Just curious, what do the spark plugs look like out of these machines?

Spark plug pics and muffler pics.

 

[MustangMike]

What killed the 460, i am starting to feel like i know nothing about chains saws and mixing gas we run 89 octane gas mixed with stihl oil from the orange bottle. I have been told that we have run saws with clogged air filters( allowing the engine to pull dirty air in?), poorly mixed gas, bad gas, run the saw too low on gas(trying to get the last out of the tank to finish a cut) most of the damage is seen as piston/cylinder damage on the exhaust side.
The dealer rep is looking into the problem because the saw is no longer under warranty, he want to keep my business i hope, and he told me he would help to work out the problems i'm having with the saws. He suggested this saw to me saying it was the right size for the job and that we should expect to get better performance if we solved our previous issues, bad gas, dirty air,improper operation. I feel that we try to mix the gas as best we can aren't intentionally abusing the saws and should get longer life than we have been. I have tried to do all the thing recomended by the dealer in the past and realize that for new employees there is a learning curve, havent changed employees in almost 2 years.
I can tell you that i currently have 5 saws in my shop for parts and rebuilding and have gotten rid of at least 5 more that were "junked" and the dealer has told me that all were operator error.

Since you are looking for suggestions:

1) Most important, I would go with the synthetic 2 cycle oil. It runs cleaner and provides much better protection, and you are obviously very hard on your saws.

2) Buy high test gas, the mid octane is always over priced anyway, give yourself some insurance.

3) Ensure that anyone who mixes the fuel does it properly. I would also do it as soon as the gas is purchased, the mix will stabilize it.

4) I would stick to saws of at least 70cc. You may want to try one of the new MS 441 C-Ms. The M-Tronic feature will automatically adjust the carb for you, and other companies have similar products.

Best of Luck,
MustangMike

 

[z71mike]

At least 2 of those plugs look carboned up pretty good. Not normal.

 

[angelo c]

can you take a few through the exhaust port and the spark plug hole too ? run the piston through the entire range of motion helps to see above ring lands as well as scoring below.
I was expecting to see much more oil in mufflers and much worse plugs...but as mike said two of your three are bad...( hey ain't that a song....oh never mind)

 

[John R]

I'm a Stihl guy through and through, but if I didn't get any better service from my saws than 6 months to a year, I'd be spending my money on something else.

 

[z71mike]

I'm a Stihl guy through and through, but if I didn't get any better service from my saws than 6 months to a year, I'd be spending my money on something else.

With the abuse these saws are seeing, no brand will be any different.

 

[blsnelling]

89 octane fuel and orange bottle oil is not likely to be causing your problems. I do recommend the Ultra, but saws will live MUCH longer than 6 months on the orange bottle stuff. 89 octane is what Stihl recommends. I do think MTronic saws would be a FANTASTIC idea for you.