New chains cut like a knife thru butter-how to keep them that way?

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Don't have a pair of dogs in this trunk, yet,

It ain't the tool, its knowing what to do with said tool that counts.

File or grind, makes absolutely no difference if you don't know what a "sharp" chain looks and feels like. Use whatever metal removal method you wish, until you grasp this concept all you're doing is randomly removing metal.

There are two primary factors that come into play in producing a "sharp" tooth. One as the name implies is keenness of edge, (think razor blade). The other and most misunderstood, as I see it, is the cutter geometry, aka tooth form, including rakers. A chain regardless of manufacturer simply will not cut to its potential or hold that "keen edge", if the two are not working in unison.

Along the same line, if one doesn't understand the end result they are trying to achieve during the sharpening process, how can they be expected to produce 30 plus consistently sharpened cutting teeth on the same chain, within the process tolerance of accuracy.

I've cut with a bunch of people over the years, long and short time loggers, arborists, firewood sellers and novices. Some people will develop a feel for and understanding of the process, some never will because they simply don't know what the end result is supposed to look like. I've often seen cases where the cutter has become so dull that even just getting in there and wailing indiscriminately with a file produces a better cutting chain than what they started with. The chain may not be "sharp" but it was so bad at the start that any type of results seem like a major improvement.

Best advice I can give is too hook up with someone that knows what they are doing, have them prepare a sample chain and use it as a guide when filing. Look at how they created the hook, look at the raker height, look at the straightness and consistency of the top and side plate angles.

Test your work in a log about 3/4 dia. of the bar length. Start a cut, with the top of the bar fully in the kerf, ease up on the grip on the front handle allowing the chain to feed itself. The chain should smoothly, but firmly without grabbing or dropping the engine rpms, pull itself into the cut and produce one consistent size chip. If you see large and small chips coming out of the clutch cover, something isn't right. At the same time as the saw is pulling itself through in the cut, it should be tracking perfectly straight. If the saw wants to pull left or right, or looses power if you try to bring it back straight, once again it's back to the drawing board. Keep touching up the chain and retesting. Before long you'll get a feel for what needs to be done to produce a well cutting chain.

As to modding Stihl RS out of the box, start by doing absolutely nothing, and performing the test above. Now mount the saw in a vise, and take one and only one lite pass on each raker with a raker file. They should go down about .005 inches. Repeat the kerf test and you'll start to feel the saw chain having more desire to feed itself, producing a slightly longer more rectangular chip than before. The rest of the out of the box mods you really need to work on and experiment with as your skills develop.

My thoughts on the subject, but I just cut wood and do not claim to be an expert. If any of this helps, great, if not that's cool too.

Take Care
 
I just read the whole thread......there is a lot of bad info in here.
Lots of bad information, not only on this thread but several others I've read lately. Tuning, muffler mods, cutting technique, "why does my saw cut crooked"....more bad advice and bad examples than good.

What can I say? I had a bunch of free time this weekend.
 
I like my chains about halfway used up ,they seem to have a happy spot there ,you using the 6 sided file Bob ? or the triangle ?
I sure liked how this one cut ,it was good all day till i cut a skidded piece of wood ,this was filed with a 6 sided flat file ,was real smooth could set it on the log rounds and they stay still with the dogs not touching the wood at all ,i do not like too low of raker in the softwood stuff i cut gets to grabby ,and does not bore cut smooth


hand filed square 1-14-14 011.JPG
 
Don, Just for the heck of it, the next time you sharpen a chain try pinching a paint stirrer (vertically) against the bar & tooth with your opposite hand and tell me if you don't think it helps. The bottom of the stirrer should be on your table (or other surface) and a little downward pressure will also keep the bar from moving up or down. I would really like to get your feedback on if this works for you.

Thanks,

That's just one of the reasons I think Granberg's file guide yields such good results- it clamps the cutter adjustably from both sides. You can even set it on the bar to a height such that the clamps get hit by the file, if you don't know better. DAMHIKT
 
You better verify the width of the incisor at the factory edge and 15% from the back, boss.

He was referring to the thickness of the chrome plating on the cutter...
What you're showing in that photo is EXACTLY why a chain "in the right hands" gets faster as the cutter is used up.
Now turn those calipers around and measure something important...
 
And what about taking the rakers down evenly? Nobody seems to pay much attention to that. Consistent raker height is important to a good cutting and smooth running chain.

Setting depth-gauge ht. is trivially simple with Granberg's guide. I did a show-and-tell here showing just how simple it is, once you understand a few basic principles. That got tossed in the various reworkings of the site. The "nobody" part above aint true. :rolleyes:

Seriously, you can set their hts. relative to the cutters within thousandths. The Troll get excitable that it doesn't take cutter-length into account, but to me that's an "angels-on-the-head-of-a -pin" thing. Choose a ht. you like, e.g. .025", .030" or whatever, and the chips tell the tale. Once you set the hts., just round the nose of the gauge a/r.
 
I like my chains about halfway used up ,they seem to have a happy spot there ,you using the 6 sided file Bob ? or the triangle ?
I sure liked how this one cut ,it was good all day till i cut a skidded piece of wood ,this was filed with a 6 sided flat file ,was real smooth could set it on the log rounds and they stay still with the dogs not touching the wood at all ,i do not like too low of raker in the softwood stuff i cut gets to grabby ,and does not bore cut smooth


View attachment 332905
That's cheating... Square cutters are against the rulz...
And clean that beak off there... You're getting sloppy...
:buttkick:
 
That's cheating... Square cutters are against the rulz...
And clean that beak off there... You're getting sloppy...
:buttkick:
I am not very good at round sharpening ,i have better luck at this kind of chain ,it is easier to see the angles to me ,that may have been bird poop on my beak ,a little birdie had landed on my lower lip when i was pouting earlier ..........
 
Setting depth-gauge ht. is trivially simple with Granberg's guide. I did a show-and-tell here showing just how simple it is, once you understand a few basic principles. That got tossed in the various reworkings of the site. The "nobody" part above aint true. :rolleyes:

Seriously, you can set their hts. relative to the cutters within thousandths. The Troll get excitable that it doesn't take cutter-length into account, but to me that's an "angels-on-the-head-of-a -pin" thing. Choose a ht. you like, e.g. .025", .030" or whatever, and the chips tell the tale. Once you set the hts., just round the nose of the gauge a/r.

I'm in BobL's camp for progressive raker (depth gauge) height. The importance of the attack angle from raker to cutter point becomes more apparent as the cutter length gets closer to the back rivet pivot, like Mike's pic shows. Getting that attack angle consistent between left and right cutters helps keep cutting action smoother and gets more consistent chip dimension and shape. Pulling thick chips may look impressive, but can hammer the heck out of every component in a saws drive train. Thinner chips are sometimes faster and more efficient.
FOP seems to work good, although I'd like to try the Husq roller for comparison sometime. No question about the validity of BobL's digital angle finder precision.

Not to start a fight, just works for me, a freehander.
 
I'm in BobL's camp for progressive raker (depth gauge) height. The importance of the attack angle from raker to cutter point becomes more apparent as the cutter length gets closer to the back rivet pivot, like Mike's pic shows. Getting that attack angle consistent between left and right cutters helps keep cutting action smoother and gets more consistent chip dimension and shape. Pulling thick chips may look impressive, but can hammer the heck out of every component in a saws drive train. Thinner chips are sometimes faster and more efficient.
FOP seems to work good, although I'd like to try the Husq roller for comparison sometime. No question about the validity of BobL's digital angle finder precision.

Not to start a fight, just works for me, a freehander.
BobL knows chain...
 
So, why does my saw cut crooked? This is a Husky 350 with 18' BAR. No matter what I do, I can't perpendicular cuts on my rounds.chains are sharpened at dealer.

(im at my madison home, using my wife's maccrapstic laptop, so can't spell/tupe or search worth a crap......
 
So, why does my saw cut crooked? This is a Husky 350 with 18' BAR. No matter what I do, I can't perpendicular cuts on my rounds.chains are sharpened at dealer.

(im at my madison home, using my wife's maccrapstic laptop, so can't spell/tupe or search worth a crap......
Try it with a different operator:D
 
Sometimes it is different cutter angles, not just cutter lengths. This is more common with filed chains, than with ground chains, as most guys are 'stronger' on one side. You said it was dealer sharpened, which is usually done with a grinder. You can visually check for cutter length and angles.

Another common possibility is a worn bar groove, allowing the drive links to flop to one side or the other. If you can hold a straight edge against the cutters (top and bottom of the bar at the same time) and also touch the side of the guide bar, you may be due for a new guide bar.

Philbert
 
I like my chains about halfway used up ,they seem to have a happy spot there ,you using the 6 sided file Bob ? or the triangle ?

Neither one, Brian. I sold my Silvey a couple of years ago and I don't have the patience, the time, or the eyesight to hand file square chain. I thought I was done falling and wouldn't need the grinder any more. Should have kept it.

All I run now is JGX. I've had good luck with it and it seems to hold up real well. It's not quite as fast as square ground chain but it's close enough. It's also quick and easy to file.

You guys that are hand filing square...I admire your work.
 
Classic. Good, you won't notice this then, Sparkles.


Sparkle




Messing. However, are you suggesting that less edge will wear at the same rate as more edge?

It should wear the same, as it is cutting a narrower kerf.that is why chains cut faster when they are ffiled back.....to a point

They only go up to six.
I'm sorry
 
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