I’ll play around with that feature and see how accurate it is. Good idea. I thought about writing the number of the sign in one corner and the gps coordinates in the other corner. Then take a pic… still kicking around ideas
What to do about persistent poachers?
- Thread starter Kdawg
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Good idea on both!
As others have said, best bet is to find a couple of responsible hunters to spend time on the property. That in combination with plenty of cameras watching cameras should help. Send a copy of the evidence to the sheriff's office, and have your lawyer send contact the offender so that they can be prosecuted on the 2nd offense.
As you find there deer stands, cut the tree down. Make sure it lands on the stand. Especially effective if the stand is in use at the time. A local farmer uses this technique very effectively.
One local farmer will let you hunt if you ask, but you have to park at the house or the barn. All other vehicles get towed, via tractor, back to the barn where the spark plugs are removed. You'll have to call the sheriff to get it back, which has happened. If you caught hunting without permission, you will end up stairing down the business end of more than one rifle. Oddly enough, people don't tend to enjoy that, and they tend not to come back.
As far as being an outsider, most of that is garbage. These individuals are consuming valuable oxygen that would be better served feeding a fire somewhere. Having said that, building relationships in the community will get you more help in the long run, and that is extremely valuable. It also makes life more enjoyable.
As far as the dog goes, make sure you always have a couple extra head of livestock. You never know when you might need an excuse to dig a big hole.
As you find there deer stands, cut the tree down. Make sure it lands on the stand. Especially effective if the stand is in use at the time. A local farmer uses this technique very effectively.
One local farmer will let you hunt if you ask, but you have to park at the house or the barn. All other vehicles get towed, via tractor, back to the barn where the spark plugs are removed. You'll have to call the sheriff to get it back, which has happened. If you caught hunting without permission, you will end up stairing down the business end of more than one rifle. Oddly enough, people don't tend to enjoy that, and they tend not to come back.
As far as being an outsider, most of that is garbage. These individuals are consuming valuable oxygen that would be better served feeding a fire somewhere. Having said that, building relationships in the community will get you more help in the long run, and that is extremely valuable. It also makes life more enjoyable.
As far as the dog goes, make sure you always have a couple extra head of livestock. You never know when you might need an excuse to dig a big hole.
Stihl a grasshopper
ArboristSite Operative
It’s decently accurate, but I’m not sure how accurate versus GPS. I use an I-phone, and I have a few pictures on my phone that were taken with another device that had the feature enabled. When I go to albums and select places it shows me a map of the US with a thumbnail and a number of pictures and I can just zoom in. I would say it’s as accurate as where my phone shows me on a map. Usually within about 10’.
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Thanks Little Wood. I think I will say to the snowmobile club that I am concerned with the violent trespassers accessing the trail through my property and the exposure of my assets to these disrespecting individuals (who also are known to use the trail) thereby putting pressure on the snowmobile club members who have been allowed to be non-involved and non-confrontational to in turn put pressure on the poaching/trespassing families/individuals. I won't pull the permit outright this year, but will threaten to for next year if troubles continue. It's time to take sides and protect [the snowmobile trail] assets they care about.
Additionally, if they or their vehicles show up at the neighboring property (as spotted by a well hidden elevated cell linked camera) I then show up Immediately thereafter on the property line and go hunting myself, always finding something to shoot at right away. that will serve to disrupt the flow of deer towards their property if they are driving and give them some pause if they are in the wrong side of the line when shots ring out. and yes, care will be taken that the bullet does not pose any threat to them... A remote controlled propane cannon near the property line will likely be the long term solution. Time to break out the Arduino boards, LORA chipsets and program something up right quick. That's in my wheelhouse.
I didn’t think I would find my dog, as almost 3 weeks had elapsed and a pretty thorough search had happened. What I found today wasn’t pretty. Head blown apart. Body dumped next to the railroad track. Unnecessary violence in a place that wasn’t there right to occupy.
Worst part was confirming to my kids that their dog wasn’t coming home alive. The loss of innocence… the bargaining and wanting to do the day he disappeared over. Heartbreaking.
The feeling of anger and wanting retribution really comes from fear; and looking deep that’s exactly what underlies this experience. I can’t rely on safety for my family (including my dog) on 450 acres and the what if’s naturally follow. What infrastructure, animals or livestock is next, and how the heck can one expect to protect that if one’s favorite dog falls victim to this taking.
I have plenty of great advice, a to-do list quite long and realistically it will likely be a few years till the poachers and trespassers back off…it’s been a tough day; thanks again to all of you for helping out, and as already promised, I’ll keep you updated on progress and successes (hopefully).
Worst part was confirming to my kids that their dog wasn’t coming home alive. The loss of innocence… the bargaining and wanting to do the day he disappeared over. Heartbreaking.
The feeling of anger and wanting retribution really comes from fear; and looking deep that’s exactly what underlies this experience. I can’t rely on safety for my family (including my dog) on 450 acres and the what if’s naturally follow. What infrastructure, animals or livestock is next, and how the heck can one expect to protect that if one’s favorite dog falls victim to this taking.
I have plenty of great advice, a to-do list quite long and realistically it will likely be a few years till the poachers and trespassers back off…it’s been a tough day; thanks again to all of you for helping out, and as already promised, I’ll keep you updated on progress and successes (hopefully).
No one seems to have considered using a drone for making observations.
I don't know what the security budget is, but a good drone can be excellent for making observations undetected by the folks you want to catch.
With a bit of practice and a good drone, you can program a decent drone to make a pre-planned flight and record it all. They are excellent at spotting vehicles or larger objects on large acreage, and 450 acres is a LOT of ground to patrol on a regular basis. If you have a really big budget, get one with a FLIR camera, and you can easily spot & track a human in the dark of early morning, and then tell the cops exactly where they are hiding. A hot engine on a vehicle would stand out like a sore thumb.
The legal limit for maximum altitude in the USA is 400 feet above ground level. That is so high that the drones become invisible and nearly impossible to hear, also. I have a very hard time spotting my DJI Phantom 4 even when I am operating it. The little tell-tale lights can all be turned off, and the newer drones are even coming out with stealth propellers that don't make as much noise. It has an easy 1/2 mile operating range, and I've seen videos of guys operating their birds from miles away. That will certainly cover 450 acres.
I can program my drone to take a planned flight pattern, but I still retain control of where the camera is aiming. So it will cover all the ground while I focus on looking around. This is particularly useful if you wish to make regular patrols, but don't wish to lose a lot of time doing it. If I see something of interest, it is easy to just take control of the drone and fly in closer for a better look.
With respect to trespassers: nothing keeps 'em out like the probability of getting caught. Diligence and effectiveness are key here. I'm guessing that the probability of getting caught is low, so they are willing to take the risk.
I don't know what the security budget is, but a good drone can be excellent for making observations undetected by the folks you want to catch.
With a bit of practice and a good drone, you can program a decent drone to make a pre-planned flight and record it all. They are excellent at spotting vehicles or larger objects on large acreage, and 450 acres is a LOT of ground to patrol on a regular basis. If you have a really big budget, get one with a FLIR camera, and you can easily spot & track a human in the dark of early morning, and then tell the cops exactly where they are hiding. A hot engine on a vehicle would stand out like a sore thumb.
The legal limit for maximum altitude in the USA is 400 feet above ground level. That is so high that the drones become invisible and nearly impossible to hear, also. I have a very hard time spotting my DJI Phantom 4 even when I am operating it. The little tell-tale lights can all be turned off, and the newer drones are even coming out with stealth propellers that don't make as much noise. It has an easy 1/2 mile operating range, and I've seen videos of guys operating their birds from miles away. That will certainly cover 450 acres.
I can program my drone to take a planned flight pattern, but I still retain control of where the camera is aiming. So it will cover all the ground while I focus on looking around. This is particularly useful if you wish to make regular patrols, but don't wish to lose a lot of time doing it. If I see something of interest, it is easy to just take control of the drone and fly in closer for a better look.
With respect to trespassers: nothing keeps 'em out like the probability of getting caught. Diligence and effectiveness are key here. I'm guessing that the probability of getting caught is low, so they are willing to take the risk.
So sad to hear. Is there any possibility that your dog was hit by a train? If it is the neighbors, that's low, really low. I hope you have involved the police and have pictures to back it up.
Sorry again. You're taking it much better than I would. My face would have been in the news already.
Stihl a grasshopper
ArboristSite Operative
Sorry to hear buddy.
Aren't there rules that you have to have visual contact with the drone at all times? I know...not everybody does. But if he wants to use this to enhance is case with law enforcement, probably best if he does it lawfully.
regarding the dog: I do hope law enforcement was called. They need to be aware if your dog was shot on your property and there is any evidence of that. Sorry to hear that happened
"Law enforcement" is not empowered to enforce FAA regulations. Besides, if the footage were being given as evidence, it can be edited to show only a short clip. The location of the operator is not included in the footage, so it would be speculative at best as to whether the operator could see the drone at the time of recording. It is very difficult to prove in court, so enforcement is kinda limited to charging folks when their drone has been captured or crashed where it was not permitted.
Of course, anybody in law enforcement could pass along the video to the FAA, but that doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that gets their attention. They are much more concerned about drones intruding into forbidden airspace. If you were caught flying your drone in a quick flight over the White House, you might get put in jail for a while. The entire DC area is banned for drones, as is any area near an airport or over a federal monument.
Curiously, National Parks are not off limits at all, but you cannot operate a drone from within the park's boundaries. You see, the National Park Service knows that they have no authority over the sky overhead, but they damn sure can regulate what you do when you are on the ground. So a drone flying over the Grand Prismatic hot spring at Yellowstone will get a really serious penalty for the operator, should they be able to catch them. They also have a pretty rigid attitude about issuing special permits for filmmakers.
Once the operators log is captured by the FAA, they have an easy case, however. It reveals altitudes, and the GPS log of the drone and the operator's location. At that point, it becomes a slam-dunk. But they don't get involved with that level of investigation until the operator is already in trouble for something else.
Of course, anybody in law enforcement could pass along the video to the FAA, but that doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that gets their attention. They are much more concerned about drones intruding into forbidden airspace. If you were caught flying your drone in a quick flight over the White House, you might get put in jail for a while. The entire DC area is banned for drones, as is any area near an airport or over a federal monument.
Curiously, National Parks are not off limits at all, but you cannot operate a drone from within the park's boundaries. You see, the National Park Service knows that they have no authority over the sky overhead, but they damn sure can regulate what you do when you are on the ground. So a drone flying over the Grand Prismatic hot spring at Yellowstone will get a really serious penalty for the operator, should they be able to catch them. They also have a pretty rigid attitude about issuing special permits for filmmakers.
Once the operators log is captured by the FAA, they have an easy case, however. It reveals altitudes, and the GPS log of the drone and the operator's location. At that point, it becomes a slam-dunk. But they don't get involved with that level of investigation until the operator is already in trouble for something else.
Get a ladder and post the signs about 12' above the ground.
If they put out bait piles, pouring diesel fuel on them works real good.
Smear dog **** all over any stands you find, around them too. Hard to get dog **** out of hunting boots.
Where I had ATVs and poachers entering my property, I spent a few days cutting all the buckthorns out of my field margins (lots!!!). I'd just throw them in a big pile on top of a long logging chain with a slip hook. Then drag the whole piles where they were entering the property with my farm tractor. They were too lazy and/or too hurt by the thorns to move/clear the piles. The piles were about 8-10' high and as wide as needed to block access. Bonus was I got rid of a lot of invasives.
One other thing, besides the dogpoop on their stands, paint them florescent pink
Just cut them down.
Then crush them under your tractor and leave them on the ground there. I'd endeavor to destroy any property I found on my property that was of "foreign origin".
Yep. Stands cost time & money. Destroy their time and money
They will get the hint, but they will also attempt to extract revenge. I think I'd just steal the deer stands, and leave as little trace as possible. Then they will assume another hunter took it, wearing themselves out looking for it elsewhere on the premises.
EDIT: I had an afterthought. Sell the tree stands on facebook or craigslist. See what neighbors come in to angrily claim their property. That'll give you an opportunity to have a meeting on your terms.
Brush piles for sure! The best barricades are built with piles of trees & logs, 'cause they don't cost anything, there is no disposal fee years later, and the bad guys don't cost any significant damage when they saw their way in. Just add more brush & thorns, if you can.
You might consider planting some invasives, too. Very few people will cut their way through a row of multi-flora rose. I grew up around them, and you definitely won't ever go through a row of that stuff without a lot of work and personal injury. And they really aren't that invasive, either; once you get a row planted and growing well, I've never seen them spread from that spot if they get maintenance-mowed right beside.
They will get the hint, but they will also attempt to extract revenge. I think I'd just steal the deer stands, and leave as little trace as possible. Then they will assume another hunter took it, wearing themselves out looking for it elsewhere on the premises.
EDIT: I had an afterthought. Sell the tree stands on facebook or craigslist. See what neighbors come in to angrily claim their property. That'll give you an opportunity to have a meeting on your terms.
Brush piles for sure! The best barricades are built with piles of trees & logs, 'cause they don't cost anything, there is no disposal fee years later, and the bad guys don't cost any significant damage when they saw their way in. Just add more brush & thorns, if you can.
You might consider planting some invasives, too. Very few people will cut their way through a row of multi-flora rose. I grew up around them, and you definitely won't ever go through a row of that stuff without a lot of work and personal injury. And they really aren't that invasive, either; once you get a row planted and growing well, I've never seen them spread from that spot if they get maintenance-mowed right beside.
HadleyPA
ArboristSite Operative
So I just read the whole thread and as soon as I read snowmobile trail going through your property I thought of a possible non-violent solution. I am a partial owner of 150 acres of hunting property in upstate NY where we have a hunting cabin and a couple buildings located on one corner of the property which is all posted just as yours is. We have a trail going through our property as well. We had trouble with people riding it off season and going off the trail and destroying things, you get the idea. Another member of our hunting club, also an owner of our property as well, went to a snowmobile meeting and caused a fuss and threatened to shut them down on our property. The trail going through our land helps connect some of the locals with the tug hill plateau trail system. It was amazing how quickly they became willing to help us with our problem when they found out they were all going to lose access due to a few bad apples. Not saying your situation is exactly the same as ours but you could always go to the club and say that due to trespassing and poachers you have no choice but to fence off your land, therefore making it unsafe for snowmobiles and that they will have to find a new trail. You may just end up with a whole bunch of new friends that will be on your side real quick and may even offer to come out and keep watch during and around hunting season. The only catch is if the bad guys happen to be bigwigs in the local snowmobile clubs, but even if they are, they will now find themselves not only making you angry, but the whole rest of the club and I don't imagine they want to be that guy. At any rate, sorry to hear of your dog and good luck.
Stihl a grasshopper
ArboristSite Operative
I had to clear a property of something like that , I’m not sure it was exactly that or not. I was fortunate enough to be using an extendable boom forklift minus the forks to push it with so I could stay about 25 feet back from the stuff!
A common tractor with a brush hog can generally back into multiflora rose and just mow it down. It's not that thick and woody. It does form a very dense hedge that even a rabbit can't get through. Small birds love the stuff.
https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/terrestrial/plants/multiflora-rose
"During the 1960s, conservationists were warning others of the dangers of this plant to unmanaged natural areas. However, many state conservation departments and agencies still encouraged interested people and organizations to plant multiflora rose to create a source of food for song birds and for wildlife cover for many kinds of animals including, but not limited to, cottontail rabbit (Sylviagus floridanus), bobwhite (Colinus virginianus), and pheasant (Phasianus colchicus) (Evans, 1983; Munger, 2002). Evans (1983) also states that some highway departments encouraged the use of multiflora rose on highway median strips to reduce headlight glare from oncoming traffic and as a natural crash barrier to stop out-of-control cars because of this species’ ability to form dense thickets quickly."
https://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/terrestrial/plants/multiflora-rose
"During the 1960s, conservationists were warning others of the dangers of this plant to unmanaged natural areas. However, many state conservation departments and agencies still encouraged interested people and organizations to plant multiflora rose to create a source of food for song birds and for wildlife cover for many kinds of animals including, but not limited to, cottontail rabbit (Sylviagus floridanus), bobwhite (Colinus virginianus), and pheasant (Phasianus colchicus) (Evans, 1983; Munger, 2002). Evans (1983) also states that some highway departments encouraged the use of multiflora rose on highway median strips to reduce headlight glare from oncoming traffic and as a natural crash barrier to stop out-of-control cars because of this species’ ability to form dense thickets quickly."
I've had someone kill my dog, burns me up just thinking about it. I don't endeavor to do violence to people like that, and by the grace of god I never will... But I sure wouldn't mind destroying the offenders property (hypothetically), which is why I didn't look for them.
From my math, based on what you describe, you (the o.p.) are due revenge. I would go around and post my land, and go scorched earth on anyone violating it. Anyone who would shoot your dog on your property probably won't understand anything less, but that's just me. I would catch them trespassing, arrest them, call the police, and go from there, but again, that's just me. I only have 9 acres, so the situation is completely different, but I wouldn't be worried about revenge for somebody on my property ****ing with my stuff. I would do whatever I could to send the message not to mess with me or my property. I'd camp on the fence line if I had to. Condolences on your pup, and good luck.
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