Dangerous barber chair felling ash infected with emerald ash borer

[gflyingsquirrel]

Howdy.

New member. First post.

I've been taking down mature ash trees on my property dead on dying from the emerald ash borer.

Yesterday, I had a classic barber chair occur as one of the trees went down. See pix.

1 of 4: showing big tall barber chair from direction of fall.
2 of 4: showing my hinge, which looks good (thickness = 10% of DBH).
3 of 4: behind the hinge, which also looks good.
4 of 4: showing how far back from the stump the tree fell, YIKES!

This is why you clear your escape route, put your saw down when the tree starts falling, and walk briskly away.

(I'm Level IV in Game of Logging).

My question to the community here is whether EOB infection makes ash trees more prone to barber chairing. I know they're uncommonly dry and long-straight-grained, but I've felled a lot of them over the years and never had this happen.

I love ash for firewood and the woodshop but I'm not into big danger, and this one scared me.

Any thoughts?

Im a power line hazard tree faller in Santa Cruz and any tree or large branch with some lean can barber and should be bore cut. Face cut doesnt really matter if theres enough lean to barber. Theres better vids on Youtube but Im not cutting timber for $ so I like a High angle top cut to keep the tree steady all the way down and have a good look at how good my holding wood is. With a diseased tree a shallow face is often best as the sapwood is more flexible. For the backcut you bore in (about an inch or two above the bottom of the face) begin in about the middle of the back cut with the lower quadrant of the tip of the bar, plunge through, now carefully come up to the face leaving your hinge set up perfect now back out leaving at least 10% sound wood at the back of the tree. If there is side lean you may want to start in the back strap and as you work up to the face set some wedges. Then you can either just keep going out the back or pull out, set wedges and hit the back strap under full power a tiny bit above your bore cut. Be ready to run 'cause shes gonna go quick. Voila, safe falling brother! I dont know if its a game when losing means dying. Heres a video with everything you need to know

 

[Patrick1903]

First off, SSD GOL (Swedish Stump Dance/Goon of Logging) has its place, but its a narrow sighted ridged set of rules for falling timber, while some of it makes sense, other parts of it will get you in trouble, trees fight back and don't care about what ever rules you learned in your weekend logger course.

Is there another equivalent type of course that you (or others) prefer?

 

[JimR]

In my experience, if the Ash is dead standing with bark on, it will rot more quickly. If the bark is blown off from wind or other cause, it holds up much better. I had one Ash barber chair and since then have bore-cut every one that had a hint of lean.

I had a lot of nice Ash trees on our property. Mine are being hit by an Ash blight. Usually within 1 - 2 years the bark is falling off. The trees are still great firewood for another 2 years. I'm up in central New England. I still have a lot more in the dying process to remove and cut up for firewood.

 

[Patrick1903]

That seems like a tremendous amount of cutting unless I misunderstand.

I believe he was saying his first cut, at a 20 degree angle from vertical, is equal in length to 80% of the diameter of the tree. The depth of the apex of the notch is not 80% of diameter. It appears more like 20% diameter depth of the apex. That's how I was following this...might be wrong though.

 

[kenmbz]

JimR - It's not a blight, it's Emerald Ash Borer, look for D shaped exit holes and bark falling off in large chips.

[SIZE=4][B][FONT=arial]gflyingsquirrel[/FONT][/B][/SIZE] - that video is pretty much how I did the last two. No Baberchairs.​

I like how he rode the wedge, I will need to try that! I used smaller wedges on both sides.​

 

[holeycow]

Worksafe BC faller training videos will teach everything you need to know. Except experience, which is the most valuable knowledge of all.

 

[Cricket]

As far as I understand as soon as soon as The tree starts to die it will rapidly begin to dry rot, causing the tree to harden and become brittle. This process moves quickly and begins before it looks like the tree is dead. Eab might make it worse than a normal die off but it’s just the nature of the wood in the tree.

I've got a (thankfully small one) hung up between the side of the barn, a rope I had my john boat tied upright with, and another tree, that had leaves last year, and is dry rot this year - I'll get a pic of it at some point, it's sort of a weird deal, physics-wise. Literally didn't know it was sick, until last fall, and it's twice as collapsed now as it was then. Just boom bam bing - dead and falling. They scare the hell out of me.

 

[softdown]

Im a power line hazard tree faller in Santa Cruz and any tree or large branch with some lean can barber and should be bore cut. Face cut doesnt really matter if theres enough lean to barber. Theres better vids on Youtube but Im not cutting timber for $ so I like a High angle top cut to keep the tree steady all the way down and have a good look at how good my holding wood is. With a diseased tree a shallow face is often best as the sapwood is more flexible. For the backcut you bore in (about an inch or two above the bottom of the face) begin in about the middle of the back cut with the lower quadrant of the tip of the bar, plunge through, now carefully come up to the face leaving your hinge set up perfect now back out leaving at least 10% sound wood at the back of the tree. If there is side lean you may want to start in the back strap and as you work up to the face set some wedges. Then you can either just keep going out the back or pull out, set wedges and hit the back strap under full power a tiny bit above your bore cut. Be ready to run 'cause shes gonna go quick. Voila, safe falling brother! I dont know if its a game when losing means dying. Heres a video with everything you need to know

I was taught that the humboldt cut really helps determine the falling direction of a normal tree. So many schools of thought!

 

[kenmbz]

I was taught the Humboldt was to lower impact of the tree hitting the ground, thereby creating more sell-able wood.
It does lower impact, don't know how it would help with direction over conventional.
I use wedges to fall backleaners and control direction where needed.
Ropes too. Never tried a jack, but have seen them used.
There are a lot of cuts that do help control direction. I used one to roll the tree a bit sideways to miss another tree. Just a thicker hinge on one side, and thin on the other. Was nice watching the tree roll to the side and falling in the spot I needed it to.

 

[Huntaholic]

I went to the college of hardknocks, broken bones, & demolished saws. Theres ALL KINDS of things wrong with your cut honestly. Face cut WAY too shallow, notch cut way too steep, holding wood, or "hinge" way too flush across. Cutting ash is a dangerous game for the best of us, for novices it can be plain suicide. When I cut ash with ANY noticeable lean, my stumps are cut clean off with only a TINY TINY TINY bit of holding wood left on the trigger. In fact if its leaning bad enough, my trigger wood is just as apt to pull out of the stump by the roots on the backside before I touch the trigger. I cant really explain timber cutting like some folks on here, Im not a silver tongued devil, but I can show you how to do it and not get killed in the process HOPEFULLY.

 

[Jhenderson]

First off, SSD GOL (Swedish Stump Dance/Goon of Logging) has its place, but its a narrow sighted ridged set of rules for falling timber, while some of it makes sense, other parts of it will get you in trouble, trees fight back and don't care about what ever rules you learned in your weekend logger course. After all the trees don't read Swedish or English, and are belligerent and vengeful assholes, bent on the destruction of all of mans works.

From what I understand Ash is just a PITA chair prone tree no matter what you do, dead and dry? does its split easier green or seasoned? the equivalent we have out here is Alder, which is most dangerous when green and the sap is running, it hardens up a lot when dead standing, though it can still kill you.

As for critiquing your stumps, face cut to shallow i.e. not deep enough which on a leaner means you have to blast through that much more wood before it tips giving the tree that much more time to stall, and then chair, granted you don't want to go as deep as a straight tree, but considerably more then ya did, then consider boring and leaving a safety strap, (as GOL teaches to do on every ****ing tree) or better, bore the guts of the hold wood, leaving wood on each side, though on this one, if you had cut a little deeper you would of been well into the rotten core, and not needed to...

Now, as for leaving safety straps, I rarely do so, but will if its super sketchy, the benefit is it gives you a head start on vacating the area, however, your other cuts have to be correct or it can still chair, or worse you over cut the hold wood and the tree crushes it and pinches your saw (this realllllllllyyyyyyy sucks btw) which is bad in all sorts of ways, not just pinching the bar but it also compromises the integrity of the hold wood....

Anyway, next time take a little more on the face... it will solve most of the issues.

How many rimes do you need to be told, GOL Does Not teach leaving a backstrap on Every tree. They specifically teach one is Not required on any tree that needs wedging to fall in the desired direction. Try actually studying about a topic Before you make incorrect statements of fact.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Im a power line hazard tree faller in Santa Cruz and any tree or large branch with some lean can barber and should be bore cut. Face cut doesnt really matter if theres enough lean to barber. Theres better vids on Youtube but Im not cutting timber for $ so I like a High angle top cut to keep the tree steady all the way down and have a good look at how good my holding wood is. With a diseased tree a shallow face is often best as the sapwood is more flexible. For the backcut you bore in (about an inch or two above the bottom of the face) begin in about the middle of the back cut with the lower quadrant of the tip of the bar, plunge through, now carefully come up to the face leaving your hinge set up perfect now back out leaving at least 10% sound wood at the back of the tree. If there is side lean you may want to start in the back strap and as you work up to the face set some wedges. Then you can either just keep going out the back or pull out, set wedges and hit the back strap under full power a tiny bit above your bore cut. Be ready to run 'cause shes gonna go quick. Voila, safe falling brother! I dont know if its a game when losing means dying. Heres a video with everything you need to know

Same procedure they show at the Paul Bunyan Shows. They also use a sight stick to determine the height and predict where the top will be when it falls.

 

[buzz sawyer]

I had a lot of nice Ash trees on our property. Mine are being hit by an Ash blight. Usually within 1 - 2 years the bark is falling off. The trees are still great firewood for another 2 years. I'm up in central New England. I still have a lot more in the dying process to remove and cut up for firewood.

I try to slab as many large logs as I can - 25" +. It may go the way of the American Chestnut. This stuff doesn't grow on trees anymore.

 

[northmanlogging]

Is there another equivalent type of course that you (or others) prefer?

D. Douglas Dent, The Art of Timber Falling, though its book form and getting harder to source as Mr. Dent has unfortunately vacated this plane.

or easier to get Work Safe BC's course on timber falling, it should be available on the YouTube.

 

[northmanlogging]

as for humboldt/standard/birdsmouth....

all of them direct just as well as the other, each has its use, really the hinge/hold wood does the directing, the face cuts whichever type simply provide room for the stem to move.

Standard is good if you are in open ground and would like a very low stump. Its also arguably the easiest to master, and therefore the most common, though I do see a whole bunch of folks taking ridiculous amounts out of the stem for what amounts to a very shallow face... a 45 degree opening is more then ample for 99% of the wood out there, yet you see many that are nearly 90 deg essentially just cutting the taper out of the stump...

Humboldt is good for getting the butt to hit first, as well as acting as a chock against back slip, and will allow a tree to "fly" especially if its a narrow face down hill, and if you want to do crazy stuff like soft dutch, or siswheel it works marginally better then standard, and it doesn't ruin marketable wood. There are a bunch of other things you can do with a humboldt too, like sniping, side shift, modified block face etc etc etc.

Birdsmouth is good if you have brittle short fiber wood and you want to be sure it goes where you intend, also handy in chair prone timber, though the effect is marginal. Essentially, its used for when you absolutely don't want the face to close up and stall thereby shearing the hold wood, or causing a chair.

A forth unmentioned would be a block face, which is were the humboldt originated from, you take a full on square chunk out rather then a sloping cut, its really a lot of work to make happen so its rarely used unless on very big timber or if you want the butt to sit down on the stump and not tear up ground in front of said stump, can be handy for falling over paved or sensitive areas, though a modified humboldt, which is a normal humboldyt with a fat chunk takin out of the leading edge is a whole lot less work, and you don't need to be as accurate with the block cuts to get the same results.

 

[mbrick]

Many folks here with far more experience than me, but the face cut looks way too shallow. 10% or less?

D. Douglas Dent, The Art of Timber Falling, though its book form and getting harder to source as Mr. Dent has unfortunately vacated this plane.

or easier to get Work Safe BC's course on timber falling, it should be available on the YouTube.

Still available from Bailey's. I bought it from them several years ago – only place I was able to find it at the time.

https://www.baileysonline.com/professional-timber-falling-book-by-douglas-dent.html

 

[lwmibc]

I still don't get the question here. I went back to the OP's photos, and there definitely are two stems there, there is an obvious layer of bark between them shown in the notch cut. 95% of the notch has been cut in the smaller left stem, 5% in the main stem.

Then there was a back cut in the main stem that proceeded until *something* broke the main stem off, with a barber chair. I have no idea how the assembly held until the cut to the barber chair was made.

Perhaps the left stem was removed first, I don't know--but if it was, then there is insufficient notch in the main stem before the back cut was started. With that approach anything can--and did--happen.

I'm just not seeing any surprise here. It looks to me that there were two stems and they should have been taken down separately. What am I missing?

 

[GrizG]

GOL, as I stated, is a very narrow set of rules, and therefore limiting, which is simply wrong and deserves derision, is it a good course for the average homeowner, sure, it does provide some much needed situational awareness, but it teaches one and only one way to cut a tree, and this is patently false.
It also tends to get folks set in their ways so they refuse to look at things any other way, which isn't necessarily a fault of GOL its just human nature.
As I tried to make clear via humor before, trees don't care, every tree is different, they fight back and they fight dirty, using the same set of rules with every tree will eventually lead to failure. To respond to natures forces you have to be able to adapt and have a "tool box" of other tricks and processes.

as for attacking Sweden, I am not, GOL is the product of one rather self righteous Swede who has made a great deal of money promoting the fact that he is a "Swedish Logger" and therefore should be taken seriously, hence the term SSD (Personally I have my doubts about his logging credentials, especially since Sweden is largely mechanically harvested, and has been for a rather long time)

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with homeowners and weekend warriors taking a few classes to better prepare themselves and be more safe in the woods, or at anything. The problem arises when the classes are taught in a way that creates hard and fast rules, when in reality, there are no hard and fast rules. There are simply rules of thumb, i.e. all depending on perspective and current limiting factors. A couple days here and there of playing with a chainsaw under supervision, does not make anyone a professional timber beast, but it certainly gives a great deal of folks the idea, and unfortunately the confidence to act like they are a big bad logger, which is a very very dangerous attitude to have in the woods.

Your comments all revolve around the first course in the Game of Logging program. It is true that GOL 1 focuses on the open face, bore cut, trigger technique. However, the complete program goes much deeper. For example, following is an excerpt from http://www.gameoflogging.com/training.php

Level 1 focuses on introducing the participant to open face felling and the development of techniques to safely use it. Topics covered include personal protective equipment, chainsaw safety features, chainsaw reactive forces, bore cutting, pre-planning the fell, and understanding hinge wood strength.
Level 2 focuses on maximizing chainsaw performance through basic maintenance, carburetor setting, and filing techniques. Limbing and bucking techniques are introduced, spring pole cutting is covered and more felling is practiced.
Level 3 focuses on techniques for handling difficult trees. Topics covered include limbing, height measurement, segment calculations, wedging techniques and hinge placement. The felling is done against the tree's natural lean and participants also limb and buck using techniques demonstrated in level II.
Level 4 focuses on ways to maximize a harvest plan for safety and productivity. Felling is practiced at working speed using all the techniques from previous levels. This level is geared to the user group.

Storm Damage Training​

Game of Logging provides specialized training that addressed the unique hazards inherent in storm damaged settings. This training is meant to provide saw users the information and techniques demanded by this dangerous environment and the forces and pressures of wind felled trees.

Demonstration & Hands-On Techniques: Participants will be exposed to and have the opportunity to perform many of the following techniques during the day:

• Limb-Loc
• Top-Loc
• Tongue & Groove
• Axle Cut
• Axle Loc
• Notch Bucking & Directional Notch Bucking (Controlled Release Cut)
• Roll Away Cut
• Buck with Wedge
• Flagging Hazards
• Tab Cut
• Oversized Log Buck
• Dirty Log Bucking
• Using ropes and mechanical advantage techniques

Demonstration Only by GOL Trainer: Participants will be exposed to these techniques, but will not necessarily perform them during training day:

• Scissor-Cut - Show using wedge and if applicable rope and come-along option.
• The release of extreme springpole tension.
• "Pole in a Hole"

Five Point Plan for Storm Damaged Trees:

1. OVERHEAD HAZARDS!!
2. Hazards on the ground
3. Assess lean weight and pressure
4. Cutting technique or cut plan
5. Escape route

 

[ra33it]

Here's a little more detail on how we're taught to make the face cut.

It is my opinion your face cut is shallower than shown in the diagram.
It is my opinion your face cut is too shallow, or on the wrong side of the tree, for the amount of lean shown.
I've not cut ash, but I've argued with some nasty cottonwoods and alders, and they tend to rain a mess down on you when things go hairy. Stay safe out there.

 

[MtbIdaho]

GOL, as I stated, is a very narrow set of rules, and therefore limiting, which is simply wrong and deserves derision, is it a good course for the average homeowner, sure, it does provide some much needed situational awareness, but it teaches one and only one way to cut a tree, and this is patently false.
It also tends to get folks set in their ways so they refuse to look at things any other way, which isn't necessarily a fault of GOL its just human nature.
As I tried to make clear via humor before, trees don't care, every tree is different, they fight back and they fight dirty, using the same set of rules with every tree will eventually lead to failure. To respond to natures forces you have to be able to adapt and have a "tool box" of other tricks and processes.

as for attacking Sweden, I am not, GOL is the product of one rather self righteous Swede who has made a great deal of money promoting the fact that he is a "Swedish Logger" and therefore should be taken seriously, hence the term SSD (Personally I have my doubts about his logging credentials, especially since Sweden is largely mechanically harvested, and has been for a rather long time)

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with homeowners and weekend warriors taking a few classes to better prepare themselves and be more safe in the woods, or at anything. The problem arises when the classes are taught in a way that creates hard and fast rules, when in reality, there are no hard and fast rules. There are simply rules of thumb, i.e. all depending on perspective and current limiting factors. A couple days here and there of playing with a chainsaw under supervision, does not make anyone a professional timber beast, but it certainly gives a great deal of folks the idea, and unfortunately the confidence to act like they are a big bad logger, which is a very very dangerous attitude to have in the woods.

Greetings from Idaho. I think some GOL techniques have their place in a tough spot… But boring every tree just because… seems dumb.