so whats the deal with skip chain?

all i've ever run is full comp chain on all my saw's......on the longer bars what difference does skip chain make? will you loose cutting speed in hard woods? the thought of less cutters to sharpen is appealing but what else?

i have extensively used skip chain on 20" and 24" bars on my 036 pro, it runs nice but you get a rougher finish and more vibration. i use it because i REALLY suck at hand filing. till i get my grinder its going to stay that way a while. i have had great experiances with full skip on short bars. it CAN be done, and with very supprising resullts and speed.

GICON said:

You wont be able to run a full chain on a Husky 3120 with a Long bar. If the saw is sharp it will be grabbing into the tree uncontrollably. You need the skip chain becuase of all the power, and all of the cutters. Skip chain only on bars 3' and longer...

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i've used a 3120 with a 42in bar while standing on gaffs and have not experianced the grabbing or uncontrol you speak of...i have 2 modded 395's and have no grabbing or control issues with them either. or do you mean the 3120 of mine ehp has?

Skip rules on anything over 24". Yes, it does not cut quite as fast as full house but when you sharpen it you will quickly understand why it is better.

Ken let me know how many drivers and I will make you a loop. .63 gauge full skip 3\8ths square ground. Now that's smooth cutting.
Here's a 40 incher.

GICON said:

You wont be able to run a full chain on a Husky 3120 with a Long bar. If the saw is sharp it will be grabbing into the tree uncontrollably. You need the skip chain becuase of all the power, and all of the cutters. Skip chain only on bars 3' and longer...

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Since when???

I have never experienced that!!!

Full chain runs smoother than skip chain.

I'm surprised we never talked about this before.
Sharpening a skip tooth chain is faster and easier, duh! Cutting with a full sequence chain is faster and easier, duh!
So why would you choose one over the other?

I believe the issue with a longer bar is the chips have no where to go, and hence interfere with the chain remaining in contact with the wood. This only occurs on longer bars.

But full comp chain will always be smoother and less grabby than semi skip or full skip...

I use full skip exclusively on all of my saws, and the shortest bar I own is 20". The benefits include the chip clearance on a long bar buried in wood, and it also gives you fewer teeth in the cut to eat up hp and slow the saw. And the whole premise of chainsaws being chainspeed, it's better, (better as in more efficient and effective) to have fewer teeth cutting at full speed than to have more teeth cutting slower, or bogging the saw down completely. Full comp chains will be smoother, but when you get that many cutters in the wood at once as on a long bar, the saw's performance will fall down to where it's not cutting like it should be.

Jeff

fishhuntcutwood said:

......And the whole premise of chainsaws being chainspeed, it's better, (better as in more efficient and effective) to have fewer teeth cutting at full speed than to have more teeth cutting slower,......

Jeff

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Hi Jeff,

I realize that quoting your statement this way could make it easy to take it out of context but I wanted to remind you that until chip clearance becomes a problem(long bar scenario), full comp is almost always faster than full skip, or even semi skip.

The frictional loss of horsepower of a skip chain being dragged through the wood is going to approach that of the full comp chain passing through(and cutting) the wood, and yet it is only taking 2/3 to 1/2 the cuts per chain revolution.

Excepting chip clearance problems, I believe that the motor of the saw running full comp chain would have to be reduced by several hundred rpm below that of the saw running skip chain before the cutting speed is completely or even theoretically even, and with the exception of specific cases where the saw is grossly underpowered, peak "in the cut" speed is going to be more directly and significantly influenced by where the engine is built to produce peak Hp than by the number of teeth on the chain.

BTW, I realize that local custom and practice often dictates how things are done but I consider the 036 or 361 to be underpowered for running a 24" bar, even in softwood. Pulp cutters around here often run that size saw but the tree diameter is also much smaller(<20"), I`d think that an 044 would be a better tool for your task.

Russ

Great explanation, Russ..and correct of course.

clearance, "full house" means a cutter on every link. Do a search, and you'll find Art Martin's old thread.

I used to use only full skip, now I use full comp on bars up to 20"-24, semi skip on 24-28..and full skip on 28 and up....

rbtree said:

Great explanation, Russ..and correct of course.

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Thanks Roger, the affirmation means alot to me when it comes from someone as knowledgable as yourself.

Russ

jokers said:

BTW, I realize that local custom and practice often dictates how things are done but I consider the 036 or 361 to be underpowered for running a 24" bar, even in softwood. Pulp cutters around here often run that size saw but the tree diameter is also much smaller(<20"), I`d think that an 044 would be a better tool for your task.

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Russ- I don't have a reply concerning the dynamics of full skip vs. full comp. I'm just a guy with a chainsaw, so I don't have a leg to stand on going point, counter point with you and rb.

But about the 361, it's never let me down with the 24". Especially after the muffler mod. I don't time my cuts with a stop watch, I just base it off the fact that it won't bog in a 22" Doug fir, and I don't have to dance around the tree when making that cut. Yeah, my 044 or 440 would probably cut it four seconds faster, but the 361 weighs less, and handles just well for me. But I could be wrong in that too.

The pic is me and my 361 with a USA factory wrap and 24" two days ago. (I mention the wrap handle so the guys who hate those can comment as well.)

Jeff

hey Jeff.. since you mentioned USA handlebars.. ill post my pic.. my husky 181 waiting for parts so i can put it back together. handlebar is over 4 years old now. its not bolted on yet because im still trying to find the bottom spacer block for it.. hows that brand spankin new bar look?

jokers said:

Thanks Roger, the affirmation means alot to me when it comes from someone as knowledgable as yourself.

Russ

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Excellent post by RB and Jokers - said much more eloquently than I would have done!

pbtree said:

Excellent post by RB and Jokers - said much more eloquently than I would have done!

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How would you have said it? Was my advice that bad?

Jeff

fishhuntcutwood said:

How would you have said it? Was my advice that bad?

Jeff

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I don't think it was that bad after all...

In reading Stihl's description of a full skip chain, they talk about maintaining chainspeed in longbar applications, so apparently I wasn't too far off. Or maybe Stihl is wrong too.

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html

Not being pi$$y, just backing up my earlier post.

Jeff

fishhuntcutwood said:

I don't think it was that bad after all...

In reading Stihl's description of a full skip chain, they talk about maintaining chainspeed in longbar applications, so apparently I wasn't too far off. Or maybe Stihl is wrong too.

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/types.html

Not being pi$$y, just backing up my earlier post.

Jeff

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Hi Jeff,

I was afraid that you might take my statements in a way that I had not intended. I did not say that you were patently wrong. I tried to make the point that skip chain belongs on long bars, just as Stihl`s site suggests. I`ve found that "long" means atleast 34" in hardwood on a powerhead meant to run a long bar. Skip is just a crutch or a compromise on an underpowered head on bars shorter than this.

Madsen`s site is wrong in a few places.

On a short bar such as your 20"er, full comp will cut faster which does mean more efficiently unless you abuse the saw and pull it significantly below it`s powerband. Don`t take my word for it, try some full comp yourself or look at what the racers are running. The good ones know within hundreths of a second which combo is faster but even the less skilled racers don`t run skip.

Russ

Not dissagreeing with anyone here, but your post brings up a point worth considering, Russ. You mention that racers fun full comp., and therefore this means that full comp. is more efficient. That is obviously true when running high horsepower saws, but does that directly relate to the average joe running an 036 with a 24" bar?

Afterall, a semi truck hauling 40,000 lbs., is running more efficeintly per pound than a pickup truck hauling, 5,000 lbs., but this doesn't correlate to saying a pickup truck will haul 40,000 lbs. more efficiently than 5,000.

So, we obviously need to take power output into consideration when speaking of efficiency, no? But, you do touch on this when you say full skip on a short bar is a "crutch" for an underpowered saw. Well, if a guy likes running an 036, then saying that full comp is a crutch for low power is just the same as saying he needs a bigger saw--something he's not arguing. For his 036 application, seems full skip is working fine for him.

Again, I'm not going to be able to go up against your knowledge Russ, I don't want to even try. And I'm not doubting what you're saying about full comp moving more wood chips faster than skip-especially in a race situation. My original point, and what I saw as being backed up on Stihl's website (and why I posted it) is that a skip chain will put less load on a powerhead than a full comp, and less load equals less speed bled off, and chainspeed is higher-especially in a wood saw, not hopped up to race with a tuned muffler, custom chain, and loads of power.

And by now it's probably painfully obvious that I'm not a saw racer, nor do I pretend or want to be. I just work timber with working wood saws. I just run what works for us out here, and I don't think in fractions of a second, but rather in how easily the saw in my hand will fall the tree in front of me.

I don't mean to be stubborn, I just wanted to illustrate with the link that I wasn't just pulling my opinion about skip chain and chain speed out of my rear.

Jeff