034 bearing problem?

[edmxz2002]

Pressure tested my new to me 034 and found a leak on what I thought was the clutch side crank seal. After further inspection, it wasn't the crank seal leaking. The leak is coming from what I believe to be the outside of the bearing race. I can also spin the outer race easily. Like it's loose in the case.
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think it's supposed to spin like that.
Has anyone got any idea what is going on here?
The red dots are to show what's spinning.
Thank for any advice you can provide.
Ed

 

[grizz55chev]

Pressure tested my new to me 034 and found a leak on what I thought was the clutch side crank seal. After further inspection, it wasn't the crank seal leaking. The leak is coming from what I believe to be the outside of the bearing race. I can also spin the outer race easily. Like it's loose in the case.
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think it's supposed to spin like that.
Has anyone got any idea what is going on here?
The red dots are to show what's spinning.
Thank for any advice you can provide.
Ed View attachment 1062206View attachment 1062207

That doesn't look good, the outer race is NOT supposed to spin! Hope you can get your money back?

 

[edmxz2002]

That is what I thought. Does that mean the case is wiped out?

 

[edmxz2002]

The outer race spins really freely. Almost no resistance at all.

 

[grizz55chev]

That is what I thought. Does that mean the case is wiped out?

Most likely. You could try a new bearing, and Locktite it in place, but that's a 50-50 -90 shot, if ya know what I mean. The 034 is a good medium size,saw, worth a shot if that's all that's wrong with it.

 

[edmxz2002]

I might try the loctite idea. Should there be some kind of seal between the bearings and case? It seems strange that the seal would press into the bearing and not seal the crank to the case covering the entire bearing.

 

[edmxz2002]

My next question is, how do I remove the bearing? Will I need to split the case apart?

 

[dmb2613]

yes it will have to be split
get a used case you will be peeing in the wind trying to repair that one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2254347679...XrtGhig3gtS8sstTaTGmuctxM=|tkp:Bk9SR4bU9frTYQ

 

[Mad Professor]

You spun the bearing race and damaged the case. Best fix is a new case.

You'll have to split it regardless of the fix, unless you get a complete good/functional lower end with crank and bearings.

I have seen people take a punch and peen the case surface all around where the race fits to take up the slop and make an interference fit, then use loctite. You mileage may vary with that fix. I have done that on automotive rotors that spun bearings and they held up until I scrapped the trucks. On a saw it's a lot of work if the bearing fails again.

The crank seal should seal the entire bearing. The spinning race may have damaged it.

 

[grizz55chev]

yes it will have to be split
get a used case you will be peeing in the wind trying to repair that one
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2254347679...XrtGhig3gtS8sstTaTGmuctxM=|tkp:Bk9SR4bU9frTYQ

Cannot disagree, I would petition t h e person you bought it from for a refund.Edit: mixing case halves is also not a good idea, ask me how I know.

 

[edmxz2002]

Thanks for the advice so far. I'm going to crack this thing open and get the old bearings out and check out the crank before spending money on it. I am just getting into repairing saws and have already gotten the CAD.
Most repairs I have done so far are replacing and rebuilding carburetors, piston and rings, crank seals on clamshell saws and other "minor" repairs.
I'm going to crack this thing open this weekend. The worst thing that can happen is I end up with a $75 pile of parts in a box.
The thing that sux is the saw has a perfect looking p&c, I already pulled that once because I cut the rope off in the exhaust port when getting the clutch off. I pulled the cylinder off to make sure I hadn't damaged the piston or rings.
When I bought it, it ran but didn't idle. I was hoping it was just going to need a carb rebuild.
The good news is I finally had a reason to buy a pressure/vacuum tester. That's going to turn into money well spent.

Thanks again for the advice and I will post about my progress as I get into the saw.
Ed

 

[edmxz2002]

Here is a picture with the seal sitting on the crank. It definitely seals inside of the bearing race. It doesn't touch the case at all.

 

[huskihl]

I think your case is too wallowed out to use bearing retainer. You can see the oval in the pocket.
I’d buy a crankcase as a matched set. The 034-036 family is known for deck heights not being flush once mismatched halves are bolted together.

 

[dmb2613]

BEFORE YOU start splitting the case read the repair manual you need to drive out pins to split it with out screwing anything up there is a thread somewhere to request a pdf file

 

[Okie]

Can any other model Stihl cases be used as a replacement for the 034?
Like a 036 or will he have to go with 034 ONLY.

Only reason I ask is I run a 034 with a 18 inch bar and it really eats wood good.
If it were mine I would think about getting another case and rebuilding if all else looks ok.
If it don't seal good around the race the saw won't idle good. and lots of vibes at high rpm to loosen the race again.

Probably a piece of the bearing cage broke and the bearing started sliding in the race instead of rolling and then got hot and the race spun. Sad. Stihl used some crankshaft bearings in their saws, MS025 for example that the bearing cage separators are plastic and I've experienced them breaking and the symptoms AT FIRST is the rope pull will have tight jerky pulls if the rope is pulled slow. Remove the spark plug and the jerky pull is easier to detect. (it's the or a bearings sliding instead of rolling due to piece of the separator between the bearing rollers)

 

[Mad Professor]

Here is a picture with the seal sitting on the crank. It definitely seals inside of the bearing race. It doesn't touch the case at all. View attachment 1062218

Clutch side bearing is pressed into case from the inside with the oil pump installed to locate depth. The race outer seals to the case and oil pump covers outer race.

Attached is a 036 service manual. 034 is about the same to work on, and 034 and 036 IPLs

 

[Mad Professor]

Can any other model Stihl cases be used as a replacement for the 034?
Like a 036 or will he have to go with 034 ONLY.

Only reason I ask is I run a 034 with a 18 inch bar and it really eats wood good.
If it were mine I would think about getting another case and rebuilding if all else looks ok.
If it don't seal good around the race the saw won't idle good. and lots of vibes at high rpm to loosen the race again.

Probably a piece of the bearing cage broke and the bearing started sliding in the race instead of rolling and then got hot and the race spun. Sad. Stihl used some crankshaft bearings in their saws, MS025 for example that the bearing cage separators are plastic and I've experienced them breaking and the symptoms AT FIRST is the rope pull will have tight jerky pulls if the rope is pulled slow. Remove the spark plug and the jerky pull is easier to detect. (it's the or a bearings sliding instead of rolling due to piece of the separator between the bearing rollers)

Lots of 036/360 stuff is the same/interchanges. IPLs list same part # for cases of both saws.

 

[rmh3481]

That bearing has moved too far out of the race to accept the seal.
Have you inspected the cylinder? Chances are its been drawing air there for some time.

If the cylinder is good you should be able to salvage it. Rings, bearings and seals.

Loctite 660 is the retaining compound we use for bearing pockets.

 

[irhunter]

Loctite 660 is the retaining compound we use for bearing pockets.

^^^^^^+1

I would try 660 before trashing the case.

Roy

 

[Automender]

They sell repair sleeves to fix some standard size bearings. Mc Master Car sold them. If the fit is not oval but just oversized. I looked into one when my k970 concrete saw had an oval blade bearing housing. If you had access to a lathe you can machine it so a sleeve would work.