Advice on adding a baffle to my Dragon

[Bushmans]

My stove did not come with a smoke shelf/baffle.
I have been running it all winter with good results but now I am looking to improve upon the efficiency of the stove.
It is a top outlet stove and I think I can pretty much just place a couple fire brick on top of the existing side bricks and place a piece of steel on top of that. My questions are as follows:

How close to the flue outlet should the baffle be?
How much area inside the stove should it cover?
Where do I create the opening for the smoke to exit the flue? Front or back?

If this is successful then I will be looking at adding secondary combustion tubes this summer.
These tubes will likely support the baffle in the final stages.

I have been doing way too much reading while sitting on the couch sick and I really love this old Dragon but would also love to see it "chew with its mouth closed"!

My thoughts are to have the baffle sit against the back wall of the stove, with air induction in the front it should make the gasses/smoke move towards the rear wall, rise up, contact the plate and then move forward reaching the gap. Creating an 'S' movement.

Please don't even respond if you are just going to say I would be better off buying a new stove. I don't have the money.

 

[chadihman]

Do you have enough depth in your stove to add a secondary burn system? I just measured from the top of my stove to the bottom of the tubes and it uses 5.5" of firebox space. My quad has 4 1" tubes starting in the back to roughly 5" from the door. The tubes are mounted on an incline from back upward to the front. Maybe like a 1" inicline. There's a 1/2" fiber board that sits on top of the tubes and then a 2" thick fiberglass blanket on top of the fiber boards. The smoke has to come up the incline across the tubes then around the tubes at the door and back across the fiberglass blanket to the exit all the way on the top back.
My stove is 3 cubic ft and accepts 24" chunks so theres probably 19" worth of secondary tubes from rear to front. I wish my firebox floor was on an incline down rearward to match the air tube incline. Its nerve racking when trying to pack it for a cold night as I have to keep in mind that the back is not as high as the front.

This sounds like fun keep us posted.

 

[chadihman]

I thought about building a big wood stove for my brothers shop with secondary burn tubes. 5 cubic feet or larger.

 

[Bushmans]

Fire box is quite tall. Around 20" from floor to top.

 

[Whitespider]

I think the plate steel would work... at least until it heat warped, ya' may have to replace it every couple years or so.

There's also this type of approach using a heavy piece of pipe or tube... you could weld it, or even try supporting it on crossbars laid across the firebrick tops. This type keeps the trapped smoke and heat exposed to the flames where it more likely to ignite, especially as it passes under the baffle.

 

[chadihman]

I think the plate steel would work... at least until it heat warped, ya' may have to replace it every couple years or so.

There's also this type of approach using a heavy piece of pipe or tube... you could weld it, or even try supporting it on crossbars laid across the firebrick tops. This type keeps the trapped smoke and heat exposed to the flames where it more likely to ignite, especially as it passes under the baffle.

View attachment 331713

Nice idea! Add a couple ss air tubes in there and you'll have a really efficient stove. Drill holes into the top sides of your stove so your air tubes fit tight. Drill the same size holes in two 1 1/4" square tubing spaced evenly with the holes drilled in the firebox. Only drill the holes through one side of the square tubing. Use the one square tube to hold your air tubes opposite the side your tubes extend through the stove. Use the other square tube to slide onto the air tubes that are sticking out the one side of the firebox a half inch or so. This will be your intake manifold for your air tubes. Close one end of the square tube and attach a slider on the other end to adjust the amount of air to the air tubes. My air tubes in my quad look like blow torches with a 2-3" flame shooting out of all the holes in the air tubes. You need to ad fresh air at the top of the stove for a complete secondary burn. All that heat without oxygen is like a choked engine. Smoking and sooting up the exhaust.

 

[woody69]

Do a google search on a Fisher baffle install. Myself and my buddy both installed one in our stoves with 3/8" steel.

 

[Bushmans]

Something like this

 

[Bushmans]

Baffle is in. Test fire tonight. Everything seems to be OK. No more flames shooting up the flue that's for sure.
It will be a whole new learning curve now. I used to adjust off the temp gauge just above the flue damper but now it doesn't have flames or direct heat going straight up so flue temps appear to be less than before. I keep running outside looking for smoke to get an idea of where I'm at.
Good news is the temps are back in the teens and 20's so the house is staying warmer. 71 degrees inside after I got home from work today. That was 12 hours on one stove load. The past 2 days has been below zero and when I got home the house was at 68 and 66.
I think secondary tubes are not too far away. I have access to a mag drill at work and can drill one inch holes through the back of my stove to run some gas pipe. I was thinking of doing only two runs of pipe for my secondaries.

Thoughts?

 

[laynes69]

Any air you put into the firebox will help, just try and give it a longer path so it can preheat. Black pipe will work, but for who knows how long. I hear once it's in and you fire the stove, the pieces may not come apart due to the heat. There's been quite a few people do this, and their stoves were changed completely. Down the road, maybe find a piece of vermiculite board as a baffle. While it's not as tough, it's insulated and will help keep more heat to the fire.

 

[Bushmans]

Can't really see the baffle until the very end but oh well everyone likes to look at a fire!

 

[brenndatomu]

The metal baffle will likely warp after a while.
This is high temp ceramic insulation board like the stove manufacturers use. I bought some from these guys over a year ago, it is still like new. You can get it in 1/2" or 1". I bought the 1" for best strength (rigidity) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ceramic-fib..._Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item1c391b00bf
Also, use stainless pipe for your secondary tubes. I know from experience regular black iron pipe will melt/sag after a few months if your new system is working good. Maybe work the bugs out with steel, then order stainless? Here is a good place to get stainless pipe (or anything metal!) reasonably priced and don't have to buy 21' sections! http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=58&step=2&top_cat=1

 

[naturelover]

Well, if you add the tubes, would you have to feed air to them somehow?

Been said that hardibacker or durock was used as baffles to some success, not sure if it would last any length of time, mostly used until the replacements can be had.

 

[disk_55FL]

Onlinemetals are in : Seattle, WA 98119

I use http://www.metalsdepot.com/ I've found them to be cheaper ( they are in Kentucky ) and the more you order the lower the shipping !

 

[brenndatomu]

Onlinemetals are in : Seattle, WA 98119

I use http://www.metalsdepot.com/ I've found them to be cheaper ( they are in Kentucky ) and the more you order the lower the shipping !

Actually, onlinemetals...

I just checked on 2' of 1" 304 SS and 4' of 3/4" 304 SS sch 40 pipe, metals depot was about 1/3 more than onlinemetals...

 

[disk_55FL]

I've no horse in this race ....... I was just thinking you didn't know about this other retailer.

YMMV ...... I've bought hundreds of dollars in the past two years from them ........ and I've always shopped around ....they always had the best price. Often with free shipping.

But ....... I didn't know they were in To - lee - do ....I'm in the buckeye too. I'd have to pay taxes ???

Before I posted this AM I priced the same type of SS tubing from both places and .....

MetalsDepot :

1" OD X .065" wall X .870" ID 304 Stainless Round Tube

In Stock
$19.20

OnlineMetals :
Stainless T-304/304L
Welded Tube
1" x 0.065" x 0.87"
Cut to: 48" Mill Test Reports (MTR's) are available for this item. They can be requested on step 4.
Optional Reference Numbers

$19.70 $19.70

Same tubing ....... a little difference in price .... not much. But, in my case ( again online metals ) they had quoted the shipping from Seattle,
so of course the price was less from Ky. Maybe what I was asking for wasn't in stock in Ohio ?

 

[Bushmans]

Thanks for the links!
I don't have a problem using stainless except I have no way to weld anything together. I would have to somehow be able to thread the pipe so I can put a nut and washer on it, pass it through the stove wall and put another washer and nut on the outside effectively sealing it to the stove. As far as making bends on the inside of the stove I'm not sure how to do that. With black pipe I could have the hardware store thread the ends of my pre-cut pieces and use 90's or 45's to make my bends on the interior. Can this be done using stainless as well?
Sorry for the inexperience but I have never dealt with stainless pipe before. I will be doing lots of research and also inspecting a good many stoves at the local stores to see how they run their secondary tubes. I've got nothing but time.

Meanwhile........back at the ranch I am amazed at how much of a difference a piece of plate steel can make in a stove.
My house is so much warmer already. I came home from work today and the thermostat read 73 degrees.
The high today was 13 degrees and windy. I put 6 splits in this morning at 4:30.

I can't wait until I can get a secondary burn. Stay tuned. I don't think I can wait till spring. Can't do anything now with 3 feet of damn snow everywhere anyways! Might as well play wood stove scientist!

 

[flotek]

I know from experience a stainless baffle that's 1/4 thick will not warp like a standard 1/4 thick steel oem baffle plate . Stainless can take the intense heat far better than cheap hot rolled steel. Same goes for burn tubes. I was going to do the secondary mod to my Englander but I leave and go to work and furnace runs for around 10 hrs unattended with no one home . Drilling holes into the firebox seemed too risky from a safety standpoint . Having a blower and air jacket around amplifies this concern if somehow there was a failure that forced air would burn your house down in under 5 minutes not worth it IMHO . That firebox needs sealed and sealed good from the factory . Your insurance is probably only going to pay out if you haven't altered the stove in anyway

 

[Bushmans]

I can see where you may be worried on your wood furnace.
I don't see how drilling a hole and inserting a tube would compromise my firebox. Fire is not going to travel through the tiny holes into the tubes and find its way out into my living space.
If anything, done right, it should make my set up safer by reducing creosote build up.
Maybe I'm missing something???????/

 

[flotek]

When you bore a hole through the firebox your adding an element of risk that the manufacturer never intended there's a chance the pipe can be dislodged carbon monoxide shooting embers or fire can potentially come out through the openings that was sealed prior to you adding holes to it . Just be extra cautious ..Funny things can happen to that incoming air if there's negative pressure and back drafts . I'm not saying your setup won't work or Is going to fail but I know * for me personally * I wouldn't do a major alteration like drill holes into a firebox and leave the unit running unattended for the day loaded up with a raging hot fire and trust it . I'd be awfully careful about your design and leaving it for the day