Alaska Yellow-Cedar and ESA

[madhatte]

Here's an interesting example from where I work: 2 years ago, 3 species were listed, a butterfly, a bird, and a gopher. It did change a bunch of policies, which I'm more or less done complaining about, and did bloat the F&W group's budget and staff, to the degree where they're having a hard time finding office space and transportation for them all. Yet, there are whisperings now of listing a second butterfly, which lives in the same habitat as the three species listed before. Why do that? The habitat is already protected. I honestly don't understand the need to double down on the protection if habitat is really the issue.

 

[BeatCJ]

Maybe our climate stunts their growth a bit?

SEE SEE! Endangered due to global warming!

 

[BeatCJ]

Here's an interesting example from where I work: 2 years ago, 3 species were listed, a butterfly, a bird, and a gopher. It did change a bunch of policies, which I'm more or less done complaining about, and did bloat the F&W group's budget and staff, to the degree where they're having a hard time finding office space and transportation for them all. Yet, there are whisperings now of listing a second butterfly, which lives in the same habitat as the three species listed before. Why do that? The habitat is already protected. I honestly don't understand the need to double down on the protection if habitat is really the issue.

I guess I could see if there were other factors. And, maybe one can recover without the second, from other mitigation. A second listed specie in the same protected area shouldn't change mitigation, though.

I think sometimes, maybe some species we just have to decide to let them go... Things have been going extinct forever. Maybe that's what nature does? OTOH, where man has caused it, IMO we need to do what we can to reverse that. I also believe we have some "canary" species that signal bigger issues. The hardest part is reasonably knowing where those are. When your protectionists have a habit of gnashing their teeth, throwing up their hands and whirling in circles with their hair on fire because a banana slug is killed, it's hard to pay attention to their arguments.

 

[Gologit]

I honestly don't understand the need to double down on the protection if habitat is really the issue.

Exactly right.

 

[Humptulips]

I saw quite a few dead trees on the edge of clearcuts when I worked in AK. They call them ghost snags. They were pretty universally hemlock and the thinking was the roots froze when the trees became exposed along the edge of the clearcuts. Kind of like what they claim are happening with the Yellow Cedar. Yellow Cedar seemed to be unaffected along these edges though.
We have them on Quinault Ridge above my house. They start at about 2500 feet elevation. Hasn't been much snow there for 15 years at least compared to 40 years ago. Trees seem to be doing fine.
Does it strike you as odd global warming is going to kill Yellow Cedar by freezing the roots?
Speculation? It seems to go beyond that. Maybe dreaming.

On another note CBO tries to make it sound like Yellow Cedar is being selected for in sales. When I was up there Spruce is what everyone wanted. Never seen FS sales centered on Yellow Cedar.
Good ones are valuable but there is a tremendous amount of defect in them, lots of blue stain.

 

[Brentc]

I read that article and laughed. I see yellow cedar all the time, even though global warming and everyone fireplaces are killing. Haha


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[Westboastfaller]

I've got to ask, what does a veteran have to do with cedar trees?

Well I posted a pic of a veteran tree but he won't talk.
Maybe I'll have to axe him again for the answer

"slowp, post: 5323284, member: 13863"]

The yellow cedar, or skunk cedar I have seen is no where near the size of the one pictured. Maybe our climate stunts their growth a bit?

Your missing a couple of things here.
That vet cypress was the biggest known of its kind before it fell and the 5th biggest is in Olimpic park there, and possibly the biggest one is there? Its suspected its on the island but the location has not been disclosed. PNW, Wa. & BC are in the middle of its range. In the AK the trees are typically smaller. The biggest Western Red Cedar in the world is close to Aberdeen and the second is off the south tip of the Island. Also the ones you would typically see would be second growth much like the ones I would see on the east
side cities & towns. 1'- 2ft
Typically 2.5' to 3' on the hill. Many for tellephone poles.

 

[Humptulips]

Confusion?
That cedar you pictured looks suspiciously like a western red cedar. I thought this thread was about yellow cedar so my confusion. I rarely have seen yellow cedar over 3' although I know there is a 7 footer on the Queets. Also yellow cedar is pretty smooth and your picture is not.
In AK yellow cedar can be found right down to sea level but around here you have to go up maybe 3000'.
What little of the yellow cedar I have logged there was probably 50% cull because of blue stain. Makes great firewood though when stained.

 

[Westboastfaller]

yeah the post is clearly about Cypress
so all the 1800 yrs old 13ft ones you've seen looked different?
Would you like to share your experience about ancient PNW Cypress ?
Obviously you haven't even seen images.
Thats still a famous tree.
Do your own foot work before you run your mouth next time please
You will likely find out you won't need to.
No more clues left in the clue closet

 

[Gologit]

Uh oh.

 

[Westboastfaller]

Here's the top section of the same tree ...if I do it right? No school marm and red wouldn't have barely any live crown left.
BTW..the registered one in the Queets is the third largest at 12ft...I earlier said fifed.