All The options!! Any info.

[irishcountry]

Hello I usually post or keep a close watch on the milling forum but I browse this one too and I have a few questions. I made the mistake of calling our township and asking what the codes are for installing a OWB and I was told that i'm zoned residential and cannot have one period, after a couple more questions I got the feeling it was a fishy response stating the rules and laws are in the process of being rewritten (so I would assume there not in effect yet?!?) I was told you can have one if your zoned Agricultural so I asked "How can I do that?" we are on 16 acres with no neighbors and I own/operate a greenhouse. Response "the state really doesn't like to do that" So I finally asked we'll what are some of the codes for indoor wood stoves/boilers he took my number said he'd get back with me in a couple days and no I never heard anything. I cannot just put one in right now due to the remodeling/inspections we are going to have done on our second floor next year and the work we have done this year so he WILL see it. I am not even sure a OWB would be the best choice for us but we gotta do something cuz we have had 700$ bills in Jan. and Feb. We have a old boiler and baseboard heat so it seems like a OWB would be a natural choice. Any info from owners and or any input on if it sounds like the run around /legalities involving installing a OWB or info on a better option like a Tarm or OWB in the garage I would appreciate it!! Thank you--- Forgot to mention people do have them in our area with neighbors close by but the township claims they have been installed the last couple of years and they can't make them remove them. - (I would hope not!!)- Thanks

 

[Mike Van]

If you use the search tab for OWB, there's probably 3 hours worth of topics here - Another option's what I have - Harman wood/coal boiler tied into my oil unit in the basement - No bans on them.............yet.

 

[Wood Junkie]

Sounds like who ever you talked to is a bit biased. I try another avenue,if you know any farmers in your area,they are quite knowledgeable about what is deemed agricultural,or possibly check with an attorney versed in local codes. I could understand in a city/town situation, but 16 acres should be more than enough space.

 

[mga]

many towns are in the process of banning them or forbidding new installations.

your best bet would be to go to the town building inspectors and talk with them directly. ask for anything they claim is written as an ordinance to give you a copy that pertains to OWB's. even if they're contemplating writing some new zoning laws, they haven't written them yet. but, if you're serious about it, better do it now.

additionally, check into a new boiler for your hot water heat system. new ones are 85 to 95% efficient and much better than the old hogs they used to have.

 

[irishcountry]

Thanks for the replys

Hey thanks for the replys didn't have time to search much earlier but I will take the time now. I know replacing our current (from 76) boiler should make a big difference but it would still be nice to supplement with wood I switched over my 96Ft. greenhouse to a harmon wood/coal forced air add on furnace a couple of years ago and it paid for itself the first year still use my overhead propane as a backup but if I get some coal going and then stuff it with hardwood at the top it will put out good heat all night and the greenhouse is like heating the outside. I will probrobly look at putting some kind of wood boiler in our garage and running pex to a exchanger on our current system. I just read someone complaining in a township not far from us complaining about the same issue with their township officials and they (the township) are proposing the people not running them anymore period and ripping them out, I just can't see how that is possible unless the township is willing to pay their gas bill, its a shame that factorys can put whatever they want into the air but John Doe can't save on their heating bill with a renewable fuel. Yippe Kai yeah for going green not that wood is the absolutely cleanest fuel at times and I can see not having a real smoker right in a town with houses all crammed together but otherwise they should leave people alone!! I'm open to any good units that people have had good luck with. Again thanks

 

[mga]

I will probrobly look at putting some kind of wood boiler in our garage and running pex to a exchanger on our current system.

you realize that your hot water baseboard heat system in the house is an entirely different type of system than how an OWB works...right? in other words, your current house system is a closed system, meaning that it works under controlled pressure...less than 30 psi.

hooking up a boiler to this requires some scientific research with adding some elaborate safety guards. i've pondered doing this for quite some time with my fireplace, only to realize that i couldn't guarantee myself it would be safe enough. a gas or oil heater shuts off the heat when the water temps reach a certain point. whereas using wood, when your house no longer calls for heat, the fire keeps burning. so, what happens to the water in the lines over the fire? it'll boil unless you are going to constantly circulate it 24/7. if not, the pipes may burst.

the other problem is what happens when not using the wood burner? that means your regular boiler just works over time heating the additional lines, unless you have some elaborate zone valves electronically controlled that will shut off that part of the system. the problem with all this is what happens if there is an electrical black out? the whole system will fail posing a major safety issue.

i believe we talked about this several months ago in the forum.

your OWB would have to be hooked up seperate from the existing hot water heat. but, if you have a plan or anyone out there does, on how to solve this problem, i'm interested in hearing about it.

 

[Mike Van]

mga, I don't know OWB's, but the Harman boiler I have is hooked to my oil boiler, there's 1 1/4" pipe between the 2 units with a circulator on an aquastat, when the water in the Harman gets to 140F, this circ. comes on, the water just flows between the 2 units. Under 140, it shuts off so the oil boiler isn't trying to heat the water in the Harman. 30lb pressure valves on both, never let go. Expansion tank on the oil boiler does it's job. There are 3 zones of BB hot water in the house, all on thermostats. The Harman has an auto draft door, when the water gets to 170F, it closes, won't reopen till it drops below 150. If the power goes out, the door closes, fire dies. If the water should get to 190F in the boiler for any reason, another aquastat turns on the largest loop of BB, to cool it down. I have by-passes on all 3 zones, if the powers out, you open these, the system will gravity feed hot water throughout the house, you manage the fire manually then. 10 years, not one problem. One of the best investments I ever made. Forgot to add - FREE hot water when the Harman's running, 'cause the coil in the oil unit is heated by the water from the Harman -

 

[mga]

mga, I don't know OWB's, but the Harman boiler I have is hooked to my oil boiler, there's 1 1/4" pipe between the 2 units with a circulator on an aquastat, when the water in the Harman gets to 140F, this circ. comes on, the water just flows between the 2 units. Under 140, it shuts off so the oil boiler isn't trying to heat the water in the Harman. 30lb pressure valves on both, never let go. Expansion tank on the oil boiler does it's job. There are 3 zones of BB hot water in the house, all on thermostats. The Harman has an auto draft door, when the water gets to 170F, it closes, won't reopen till it drops below 150. If the power goes out, the door closes, fire dies. If the water should get to 190F in the boiler for any reason, another aquastat turns on the largest loop of BB, to cool it down. I have by-passes on all 3 zones, if the powers out, you open these, the system will gravity feed hot water throughout the house, you manage the fire manually then. 10 years, not one problem. One of the best investments I ever made. Forgot to add - FREE hot water when the Harman's running, 'cause the coil in the oil unit is heated by the water from the Harman -

lol....i knew there had to be a system out there somewhere. thanks for the feedback.

is the Harman located along side your main boiler? my question is related to the gravity feed. if, say your main boiler was in the basement, and your Harman was above grade, would gravity feed still work?

i just checked their web site and found their wood burning boiler here:

http://www.harmanstoves.com/list.as...,32,33&title=Harman Central Heating Solutions

and a schematic of the boiler here:

http://www.harmanstoves.com/specifications.asp?id=31

thanks again....i'm going to look into it further.

 

[Mike Van]

Both units are in the basement, side by side - At different grades, I don't know, but the theory that hot water from the boiler will rise, or flow out forcing cooler back into it should still apply? With the Harman in the basement, it's nice & warm down there - Which does heat the floor. You don't have to go out at 0F and load the stove - I have the SF 260.

 

[mga]

Both units are in the basement, side by side - At different grades, I don't know, but the theory that hot water from the boiler will rise, or flow out forcing cooler back into it should still apply? With the Harman in the basement, it's nice & warm down there - Which does heat the floor. You don't have to go out at 0F and load the stove - I have the SF 260.

how did you run the flu for that? did you have to run all triple walled pipe?

 

[irishcountry]

reply

Yeah I realize they are 2 different systems but every OWB company has mentioned a water to water heat exchanger as far as I know from talking to them the water in the systems never actually mixes it just transfers heat through closely spaced plates and our current boiler has a T&P valve and if it gets too hot it turns off and turns on the circulator pump. Sounds like Mike has a really good setup and Harman is a reputable company I think I will investigate them a little further like I said I have a forced air add on from them (the biggest one they make its a monster!!) in my greenhouse and it works really well. Ultimately I would like to try to not have the unit in the house but the garage is fine with me I would imagine as long as the lines were insulated underground then through the interior walls of the home it would not lose a ton of heat on the way the garage is about 25ft. from the nearest exterior wall then another 25ft or so to the existing boiler, this would be the ultimate setup for me since my wife would like to keep the "wood smell" and mess out of the house and soon the garage will be detached from the house after I tear off our office/breezeway that connects the garage now. Again thanks for the replys this is a great forum all they way around the boards. Happy Hoildays to everyone thanks

 

[Mike Van]

mga, it's in a brick chimney w/ flue. I clean the chimney about once a month Nov - Mar.

 

[Boundaryh20]

There are pressurized options...

We bought a old farm house a few years ago that had a AquaTherm OWB in the garage (a pressurized unit). The unit was older, but worked great for two years. The three year it sprung a leak (the actual unit was about 15 years old). I sold the leaky unit and bought a gasification wood boiler which is also pressurized to a standard house water system (12 psi). My wood usage is at least half, probably a third, with this new unit.

The disadvantages of the gasification unit is that your wood has to be dry and the unit will need to be in a sheltered environment (I have mine in the garage).

I would not go back to a OWB...mainly because of the wood usage.

I suggest you take a look at these units....there are several good brands which have been discussed here.

Or if you are set on a OWB, there are pressurized units which won't require a heat exchanger. Also, the system can be set-up with a back-up boiler (propane) that will "take over" if your OWB or gasification unit runs out of wood.

Good-luck
Bryan