Am I expecting too much from one ground guy?

[Nailsbeats]

Yeah had one once call me an azzhole and I said nope I am
a di--head so get used to it, if you think you are going to halfazzed
do things, wrong you can collect what is coming now and quit wasting
both our time. Ship up or ship out makes no differance to me, I will
still be here lord willing and it is your choice.

The line I like to use is "others come and go, I remain." Doesn't make a difference to me either, they have to want it and earn it, nobody's gonna hand you anything in life.

I figured that out at a young age, have lived by it since and it has worked well. My dad always says "if you are willing to put your workboots on, you will always have work." I will never forget that either.

All other factors aside, you as an employee have to have the initiative to step up, or don't expect to be recognized as far as promotions go. The ones that do will move up and be valued, the ones that settle for status quo will most likely fizzle out and be replaced.

All of my mentors in life were harda$$ older men. Get past their roughness, truly listen to what they are saying and then do it! They are just seeing if you are tough and smart enough to figure that out. If you think they are too tuff, then you don't know what tuff is.

 

[custom8726]

The line I like to use is "others come and go, I remain." Doesn't make a difference to me either, they have to want it and earn it, nobody's gonna hand you anything in life.

I figured that out at a young age, have lived by it since and it has worked well. My dad always says "if you are willing to put your workboots on, you will always have work." I will never forget that either.

All other factors aside, you as an employee have to have the initiative to step up, or don't expect to be recognized as far as promotions go. The ones that do will move up and be valued, the ones that settle for status quo will most likely fizzle out and be replaced.

All of my mentors in life were harda$$ older men. Get past their roughness, truly listen to what they are saying and then do it! They are just seeing if you are tough and smart enough to figure that out. If you think they are too tuff, then you don't know what tuff is.

Well said!!

 

[Nailsbeats]

Thanks custom, I'm so proud of that post I will grab a beer, you have inspired me.

 

[rbtree]

I usually have 2, but mostly 3 ground men on most jobs. I look at it this way. For what one of my groundies can do for $15.00 an hour, it will make it that much more easier for me. and more hands make lighter work.

That is far from efficient for most pruning jobs. I prefer to have everyone on the crew be able to climb. Typically, one groundie can have plenty done working under two pruners....unless there's tons of brush coming down fast.

 

[ropensaddle]

The line I like to use is "others come and go, I remain." Doesn't make a difference to me either, they have to want it and earn it, nobody's gonna hand you anything in life.

I figured that out at a young age, have lived by it since and it has worked well. My dad always says "if you are willing to put your workboots on, you will always have work." I will never forget that either.

All other factors aside, you as an employee have to have the initiative to step up, or don't expect to be recognized as far as promotions go. The ones that do will move up and be valued, the ones that settle for status quo will most likely fizzle out and be replaced.

All of my mentors in life were harda$$ older men. Get past their roughness, truly listen to what they are saying and then do it! They are just seeing if you are tough and smart enough to figure that out. If you think they are too tuff, then you don't know what tuff is.

Tough is many things but to me it is doing what needs done. I will
always be tough as it is in my blood. Tough is doing the right thing
when it is easier to take the wrong route! Tough is climbing the dead
pine to make the payments consistently many years and listening to
whiney ground hogs yapping on a cell phone and not completely losing
it. Tough is many things in life which the sum of, gives us our character.
I am never thankful for the bad until I am through it but later glad for
the experiance. Toughest is the life of a tree mans housewife

 

[Nailsbeats]

Right you are Rope, right you are.

 

[alanarbor]

That is far from efficient for most pruning jobs. I prefer to have everyone on the crew be able to climb. Typically, one groundie can have plenty done working under two pruners....unless there's tons of brush coming down fast.

Yeah that's about right, pruning work, one ground guy to 2 climbers usually works well. (3:1 or 4:1 is an beatdown, but it can be done) When I worked the ground, if it was only one climber, I found myself sharpening and cleaning a lot of saws while periodically stacking brush and chipping every 15 minutes or so. The key is find something to do that is productive. Cell phones weren't commonplace when I was in the field so that particular PITA wasn't an issue.

On removals with a lot of technical rigging I always felt 3 was the optimal number of ground personnell, with one guy exclusively running ropes in direct communication w/ the climber, and two to move and process brush.

 

[arbor pro]

The best way to find middle ground is to approach the problem from both ends. Until you allow your employee(s) to contribute to finding a solution to your problems, you'll always be looked upon as the 'imperial dictator' who just doesn't understand or appreciate what they do.

Whenever I felt that my crews weren't being efficient enough, I would sit down with them and tell them what my expectations were of them. Then, I would allow them to tell me what they 'needed' to meet my expectations. Usually, a few extra bucks in their pocket was all it took to get them motivated to take fewer breaks and work harder. I just made sure the guys always understood that, in order for me to be able to pay them more, they had to perform at a higher level. That was never an issue for them. They always had the ability to work harder - they were just waiting for the appropriate form of motivation to get them to do so.

On one occassion, I sat down with my lead arborist and lead ground guy and told them both that production had to increase by at least 25% in order to meet my expectations. They told me that, in order to do that, they would have to work more longer and more efficiently. I targeted the particular issue of efficiency and asked them what they needed to take fewer breaks and put a bit more hustle in their step and they said, 'money'. I gave them each a 20% raise contingent upon their meeting my expectations of them - they had to boost productivity by 25% while still puting in about the same number of hours in a week as they had been working. They starting working more efficiently and production went up the very next day and stayed that way until the day I sold my business to my lead arborist.

Employees need to have goals, direction and incentives. Give them something to work towards, offer them clear direction and incentives for attaining goals and a business will grow and prosper.

 

[ccrider2240]

3 climbers 1 groundie,, he better run the ropes shag saws and pole saws have the brush behind the chipper and yard raked why???? cause we all have done before, get you a young kid 25 or so strong as an ox and quick on his feet, ive always hired 140 to 200 lbers, make sure they can hop scotch thru a brush pile.:greenchainsaw:
3 pruners 1 groundie
1 removal 3 groundies
2 removals 3 groundies

 

[ropensaddle]

3 climbers 1 groundie,, he better run the ropes shag saws and pole saws have the brush behind the chipper and yard raked why???? cause we all have done before, get you a young kid 25 or so strong as an ox and quick on his feet, ive always hired 140 to 200 lbers, make sure they can hop scotch thru a brush pile.:greenchainsaw:
3 pruners 1 groundie
1 removal 3 groundies
2 removals 3 groundies

It all depends see on my work the cleanup is done with
my grapple truck so one groundy had better keep up.
If he can't stack it and fetch a fueled up saw he needs
get back on his video game. My wife handles it until I get
one of these 40+ inch trees but as long as its piled
in one spot its all good. I do my own ground work
a lot but if I actually hire they better keep up or
we will start chipping with the whisper instead of the
grapple method! I personally don't mind either but
if its a huge limby removal I opt for the grapple to
save time and strain.

 

[ccrider2240]

nough said

 

[ClimbinArbor]

man i need a grapple. hey saddle i got a couple more mulberry removals next week if you want to work on another trade lol.

 

[ropensaddle]

man i need a grapple. hey saddle i got a couple more mulberry removals next week if you want to work on another trade lol.

I actually found two on my forty acres recently so I will be propagating
some from them! It seems the ones we have seldom are loaded with fruit
and oh how I love those berry's but not nearly as much as my grapple

 

[ClimbinArbor]

rope

the mulberrys like dry sandy soil and rocky terrain. how wet is it down there and what type of soil they in? maybe do a little sprout planting in selected areas, ie hunting ground or backyard(both for some lol). sand or clay, or a mix is a great soil to plant them in. hilltops are good for hunting. careful tho, they are invasive

 

[treemandan]

The best way to find middle ground is to approach the problem from both ends. Until you allow your employee(s) to contribute to finding a solution to your problems, you'll always be looked upon as the 'imperial dictator' who just doesn't understand or appreciate what they do.

Whenever I felt that my crews weren't being efficient enough, I would sit down with them and tell them what my expectations were of them. Then, I would allow them to tell me what they 'needed' to meet my expectations. Usually, a few extra bucks in their pocket was all it took to get them motivated to take fewer breaks and work harder. I just made sure the guys always understood that, in order for me to be able to pay them more, they had to perform at a higher level. That was never an issue for them. They always had the ability to work harder - they were just waiting for the appropriate form of motivation to get them to do so.

On one occassion, I sat down with my lead arborist and lead ground guy and told them both that production had to increase by at least 25% in order to meet my expectations. They told me that, in order to do that, they would have to work more longer and more efficiently. I targeted the particular issue of efficiency and asked them what they needed to take fewer breaks and put a bit more hustle in their step and they said, 'money'. I gave them each a 20% raise contingent upon their meeting my expectations of them - they had to boost productivity by 25% while still puting in about the same number of hours in a week as they had been working. They starting working more efficiently and production went up the very next day and stayed that way until the day I sold my business to my lead arborist.

Employees need to have goals, direction and incentives. Give them something to work towards, offer them clear direction and incentives for attaining goals and a business will grow and prosper.

You truly are a PRO sir. I like the " sit down" part the best. Its is better to have a sit down in the office than a breakdown on the job. Kudos.

 

[ropensaddle]

The best way to find middle ground is to approach the problem from both ends. Until you allow your employee(s) to contribute to finding a solution to your problems, you'll always be looked upon as the 'imperial dictator' who just doesn't understand or appreciate what they do.

Whenever I felt that my crews weren't being efficient enough, I would sit down with them and tell them what my expectations were of them. Then, I would allow them to tell me what they 'needed' to meet my expectations. Usually, a few extra bucks in their pocket was all it took to get them motivated to take fewer breaks and work harder. I just made sure the guys always understood that, in order for me to be able to pay them more, they had to perform at a higher level. That was never an issue for them. They always had the ability to work harder - they were just waiting for the appropriate form of motivation to get them to do so.

On one occassion, I sat down with my lead arborist and lead ground guy and told them both that production had to increase by at least 25% in order to meet my expectations. They told me that, in order to do that, they would have to work more longer and more efficiently. I targeted the particular issue of efficiency and asked them what they needed to take fewer breaks and put a bit more hustle in their step and they said, 'money'. I gave them each a 20% raise contingent upon their meeting my expectations of them - they had to boost productivity by 25% while still puting in about the same number of hours in a week as they had been working. They starting working more efficiently and production went up the very next day and stayed that way until the day I sold my business to my lead arborist.

Employees need to have goals, direction and incentives. Give them something to work towards, offer them clear direction and incentives for attaining goals and a business will grow and prosper.

I can agree partly with incentive motivation, as long as it is not
at the cost of damaging property and safety. I would feel if they
were working hard and seen the opportunity of making more then
they may become risky! If however they are riding the clock,taking
too many breaks or having a bad attitude and claim more money
would alleviate these problems, I can't reward that behavior. They
came to work and knew the pay but are going halfspeed, why not
just can em? I would reward them if it had been a while with good
performance and then say after a year their performance declined
because that would be the boss performance as they are due a
encouraging raise. If I was making good I definitely would want
them to. I however am in the trench not the office so this don't
apply as I know if they are good or not. I would love nothing more
than to be able to afford the best help and pay the best rate not
the going rate. It all boils down to the market and amount of work
you keep. I have many times felt like I am getting to the secure
status and could afford help full time, only to hit drought that burns
all the money made up. It is frustrating but keep chugging and try
to remain optimistic.

 

[lxt]

3 climbers 1 groundie,, he better run the ropes shag saws and pole saws have the brush behind the chipper and yard raked why???? cause we all have done before, get you a young kid 25 or so strong as an ox and quick on his feet, ive always hired 140 to 200 lbers, make sure they can hop scotch thru a brush pile.:greenchainsaw:
3 pruners 1 groundie
1 removal 3 groundies
2 removals 3 groundies

3 pruners..........1 groundie, C`mon!! those are either sad climbers or that groundie is flash gordon!! the other two I can relate with!!

If Im climbing/ bucket operating or my other guy is doing such, there better be atleast 2 groundies!!!

A good climber/bucket man can keep 2 groundies more than busy!!


LXT...............

 

[ropensaddle]

3 pruners..........1 groundie, C`mon!! those are either sad climbers or that groundie is flash gordon!! the other two I can relate with!!

If Im climbing/ bucket operating or my other guy is doing such, there better be atleast 2 groundies!!!

A good climber/bucket man can keep 2 groundies more than busy!!


LXT...............

Like yeah if chipping, I can keep six men busy if on
the removals and they are chipping and loading wood
by hand.

 

[arbor pro]

I can agree partly with incentive motivation, as long as it is not
at the cost of damaging property and safety. I would feel if they
were working hard and seen the opportunity of making more then
they may become risky! If however they are riding the clock,taking
too many breaks or having a bad attitude and claim more money
would alleviate these problems, I can't reward that behavior. They
came to work and knew the pay but are going halfspeed, why not
just can em? I would reward them if it had been a while with good
performance and then say after a year their performance declined
because that would be the boss performance as they are due a
encouraging raise. If I was making good I definitely would want
them to. I however am in the trench not the office so this don't
apply as I know if they are good or not. I would love nothing more
than to be able to afford the best help and pay the best rate not
the going rate. It all boils down to the market and amount of work
you keep. I have many times felt like I am getting to the secure
status and could afford help full time, only to hit drought that burns
all the money made up. It is frustrating but keep chugging and try
to remain optimistic.

In my case, it was a matter of getting my lead arborist and ground guy to understand that it didn't take two men to drive a truck to go empty a load of chips or logs. One ground guy could drive the truck while the other stayed behind to rake. He could still take a 15 minute break before starting to clean up the site but, he didn't need to take a 45-minute break by riding along with the driver of the truck and doing nothing.

Safety was never compromised and carelessness with the client's property was an absolute no-no so, it was merely a matter of getting the guys to understand how they could save 15 minutes here and there so that, instead of only getting in 6 hours of billable work each day, they were getting in a full eight without having to work much longer - just less down-time and better planning of jobs ahead of time.

I also stopped giving out bonuses which only encouraged the crews to prioritize the profitable jobs and procrastinate the less profitable ones. I allowed my lead arborist to do the work scheduling and I know he was puting off the jobs he realized he bid too low. Doing away with the production bonus took the stress off of the crews because they knew they had a good hourly wage that was guaranteed every week as long as they were busting their humps to earn it and not wasting production time by taking too many/too long of breaks.

 

[tree MDS]

I can agree partly with incentive motivation, as long as it is not
at the cost of damaging property and safety. I would feel if they
were working hard and seen the opportunity of making more then
they may become risky! If however they are riding the clock,taking
too many breaks or having a bad attitude and claim more money
would alleviate these problems, I can't reward that behavior. They
came to work and knew the pay but are going halfspeed, why not
just can em? I would reward them if it had been a while with good
performance and then say after a year their performance declined
because that would be the boss performance as they are due a
encouraging raise. If I was making good I definitely would want
them to. I however am in the trench not the office so this don't
apply as I know if they are good or not. I would love nothing more
than to be able to afford the best help and pay the best rate not
the going rate. It all boils down to the market and amount of work
you keep. I have many times felt like I am getting to the secure
status and could afford help full time, only to hit drought that burns
all the money made up. It is frustrating but keep chugging and try
to remain optimistic.

Man, it sounds like my boat rope, +1, MDS.