Andy's Christmas 460 build

[dodgeram]

Huh?

Alright, I'll admit that I'm naive and a newbie, but why do this to a saw? I have a MS460, a couple years old, and I think it's the best thing since sliced bread, for what I use it for. I basically cut everything larger that 10-12 inches with it. Everything else is done with a MS170 or MS180C-B. What gains are going to be had by "Modifying the muffler" and all this other jazz? Deep down, is this something I want/need to do? I want the saw to last a long time, my father has had an 028AV for over 20 years, and it was used before he got it.

Yes, I see the speed difference....and the noise. Long term, is this the best thing to get longevity or just get more HP and rpms for the short term and then have to rebuild it?

 

[HEAVY FUEL]

Get out the popcorn.

 

[gink595]

Alright, I'll admit that I'm naive and a newbie, but why do this to a saw? I have a MS460, a couple years old, and I think it's the best thing since sliced bread, for what I use it for. I basically cut everything larger that 10-12 inches with it. Everything else is done with a MS170 or MS180C-B. What gains are going to be had by "Modifying the muffler" and all this other jazz? Deep down, is this something I want/need to do? I want the saw to last a long time, my father has had an 028AV for over 20 years, and it was used before he got it.

Yes, I see the speed difference....and the noise. Long term, is this the best thing to get longevity or just get more HP and rpms for the short term and then have to rebuild it?

So say a stock saw will last for 2000 hours of use. And to keep it simple say it takes an hour to cut a cord of wood. SO with the stock saw you will cut 2000 cord of wood over the life of that saw. So say you get one ported and you get a 50% gain in cutting speed now you get 2 cord an hour. And you shorten the life of the saw by 500 hours because of added stress due to porting. You've managed to 3000 cord on with the modded saw.

For me personally I cut between 5- 10 cord of wood for heat any maybe do some sidework clearing now and then if I use that saw for the next 200 years I will cut 2000 cord, so If a heavy modded saw's life is decreased by 50% cutting my firewood I think I'm set for life. Saws are cheap for the most part, it isn't a 40,000 dollar piece of equipment. You can buy a Piston and cylinder new for about 250.00 +/- depending the saw. You can achieve alot more work with a ported saw for the amount of time worked. And probably less stress on your body not having to bend over for longer periods. To each his own but if owning and running the same saw for 40 years is important so be it, to me it isn't a life commitment and it is easily fixed or replaceable.

 

[chainsaw kid]

Alright, I'll admit that I'm naive and a newbie, but why do this to a saw? I have a MS460, a couple years old, and I think it's the best thing since sliced bread, for what I use it for. I basically cut everything larger that 10-12 inches with it. Everything else is done with a MS170 or MS180C-B. What gains are going to be had by "Modifying the muffler" and all this other jazz? Deep down, is this something I want/need to do? I want the saw to last a long time, my father has had an 028AV for over 20 years, and it was used before he got it.

Yes, I see the speed difference....and the noise. Long term, is this the best thing to get longevity or just get more HP and rpms for the short term and then have to rebuild it?

I like what Frank said (Gink) but I would like to add a couple of things. Especially newer saw, they are very restrictive resulting in more heat and I'm not convinced they will even last the 2000 hours for the average person. I think Frank was referring to a guy who takes care of his saw lasting 2000 hours. Ding-bats get only 1200 if they are lucky.

I can tell you this, I personally built a couple of 2171's a couple of years ago for a logging outfit (nhlogga can attest) and these guys run the crap out of them all week and they are still going strong. One of them I recently did throw a new piston and rings in but that was preventive maintenance, it was still going strong. The only requirement I have for people if they run a modded saw of mine is that they run the oil I say. I don't care about all the "oil thread" B/S, I'm telling you what to do.

Kevin

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

.......50% gain in cutting speed now you get 2 cord an hour.

What about rocking your chain 50% faster Gink!.........Hahahahahaha!

 

[gink595]

What about rocking your chain 50% faster Gink!.........Hahahahahaha!

:hmm3grin2orange: Yeah you'll have a few more dubbed up cutters to file back.

 

[ECsaws]

Alright, I'll admit that I'm naive and a newbie, but why do this to a saw? I have a MS460, a couple years old, and I think it's the best thing since sliced bread, for what I use it for. I basically cut everything larger that 10-12 inches with it. Everything else is done with a MS170 or MS180C-B. What gains are going to be had by "Modifying the muffler" and all this other jazz? Deep down, is this something I want/need to do? I want the saw to last a long time, my father has had an 028AV for over 20 years, and it was used before he got it.

Yes, I see the speed difference....and the noise. Long term, is this the best thing to get longevity or just get more HP and rpms for the short term and then have to rebuild it?

This is my take on it.
Most of the chainsaw modding originated in the PNW where the fellers got paid by the tree, they found if they did a little hop up to there saws they would increase there pay by 40% or more, wear out a saw in x amount of time big deal get a new one the last one more than paid for its self.Now its kinda like the cool thing to do and have... you may or may not change your mind if you ran one who knows untill you try one.
But it will shorten the life of your saw , most will neaver wear a bar out let alone a saw. modded saw aren't for everyone, but they are fun to run,,,,,,,,,,,.

 

[ECsaws]

Eric,
I have a 460 that wouldn't start after seeming perfectly fine. The Dealer said it was junk. I asked him what the problem was and he said the piston and cyl, he could see it when he took off the muffler, probably from running too lean.
I'm no 2 stroke mechanic but figure I'll fix it myself. Time to learn. What's the difference between popup pistons and stock or meteor. It seems the build you're doing is to make the saw breath better. What other parts should be replaced in a used older saw? I'm kind of lost on exactly what to do to repair and run this saw every day, a little more power would be helpful but durability is a must. Would you rebuild a saw with this mod?
Rick

Rick depending on the extent of damage to your saw you maybe able to clean the cly up and put a new piston in it and save it. lots of info on this site about that subject .
Meteor is just a real nice aftermarket piston.
stock well its OEM
Pop-up is kinda like putting a dome on the piston to increase compreshion.

You are correct porting dose make the saw breath better its all about flow think of it kinda like a air compressor ...

 

[Jacob J.]

This is my take on it.
Most of the chainsaw modding originated in the PNW where the fellers got paid by the tree, they found if they did a little hop up to there saws they would increase there pay by 40% or more, wear out a saw in x amount of time big deal get a new one the last one more than paid for its self.Now its kinda like the cool thing to do and have... you may or may not change your mind if you ran one who knows untill you try one.
But it will shorten the life of your saw , most will neaver wear a bar out let alone a saw. modded saw aren't for everyone, but they are fun to run,,,,,,,,,,,.

This is pretty much on the money. As I've posted before, when I was "straight falling" which means launching small conifers straight down the hill with the butts up, so they could be yarded out tree-length, I had to cut 250-500 stems a day to make decent money. In a unit that's mostly smaller Douglas Fir and Hemlock, the shovel operator can get 70-90 stems on a single long log load. I was getting $80/load and I was averaging 4-4.5 loads a day with a modified saw. A stock saw was only getting me 3.5-4 loads a day with the same bars and chains. Over the course of a 6-month job, you can figure out real quick how much more money that adds up to.

This whole modified saw thing isn't a recent phenomenon. There are guys here that have been playing around with saws since the 50's. I met an old-timer once in Burns, Or that started porting McCulloch engines in 1958 and was a field engineer for Mac for 22 years. He'd go out with the log cutters and evaluate the saws on the job and go back and build engines to suit. Stihl and Husky have people that do the same thing now. I met a Husqvarna engineer at the local Husky shop last year and he had a piped 357XP that he'd built with him. Of course he could barely speak a word of English.

 

[smokinj]

Alright, I'll admit that I'm naive and a newbie, but why do this to a saw? I have a MS460, a couple years old, and I think it's the best thing since sliced bread, for what I use it for. I basically cut everything larger that 10-12 inches with it. Everything else is done with a MS170 or MS180C-B. What gains are going to be had by "Modifying the muffler" and all this other jazz? Deep down, is this something I want/need to do? I want the saw to last a long time, my father has had an 028AV for over 20 years, and it was used before he got it.

Yes, I see the speed difference....and the noise. Long term, is this the best thing to get longevity or just get more HP and rpms for the short term and then have to rebuild it?

Keep it simple that 460 wil out last you. Get really good at sharpening chains is all that a 460 needs to get the job done. Now Modds are cool though.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Wonder if the dual port muffla would make much of a difference.

I can't imagine that it would....

 

[FATGUY]

As some of you know I threw a free woodsport in the Christmas giving thread.
Andy (andydodgegeek) was the first to jump, anyho he sent me a real nice MS 460 to tune up.
Got a "Little bit" done on this afternoon.
I dont use popup pistons.
stock jug.

after combustion chamber is adjusted I ended up with 5.5 cc chamber.
chamber and base cut squish set to .023. hope to end up around 180-190 psi stock was 155.

More tomarrow hopefully ... Ya I know I'm slow.

VERY nice machining.

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

Wonder if the dual port muffla would make much of a difference.

I can't imagine that it would....

Go put gas in your 460 and see for you self.

 

[tree monkey]

the only coplaint i get from guys i mod saws for is now i have to mod all his saws

 

[WoodChuck'r]

Go put gas in your 460 and see for you self.

Haven't fired it yet!

 

[dodgeram]

Keep it simple that 460 wil out last you. Get really good at sharpening chains is all that a 460 needs to get the job done. Now Modds are cool though.

I still haven't tried out the skip tooth chain I got for the 20" bar....let alone think about any modifications. Like some of the others say, though, it does get heavy after a while...but, I'm not cutting all that much, 8-10 cord a year, so far.

Thank you all for some great insight. It's a lot like cars...some people just want to drive a hot rod and some just like a family sedan that gets you from point A to point B.

 

[indiansprings]

I used to be one of the biggest skeptics of modded/ woods ported work saws, and boy was I ever wrong. Doing the repetitive cutting that you do in the commercial firewood business adds up to a hell of a lot of repetitive cuts in a day, the 460 I had modded was 40% faster after the port work. If your using a saw for a living it sure as hell pays to run a saw that makes 30-40 percent gains. I see no reason to expect the saw to wear out any faster, I can say when and if it does wear out, it cut a lot more wood than it would have if it were a stock saw. I'm at my peak time and can't afford to send saws out this time of year for port work, but you can bet I'll be having two or three more saws ported at the end of the peak season. Even if you don't cut commercially, if you've got the spare coin, I'd sure recommend it. You can't get the smile off you face, there is absolutely no comparison in a properly modded saw and a stock saw. Kind of like driving around a PT Cruiser or a 911 Turbo, most fun you can have for 250-300 bucks.
Thanks Eric for sharing your work, beautiful machining, top notch. Nice to see some different techniques. Ever do a 261?lol

 

[procarbine2k1]

Sweet work Eric. I may have you work one up for me one of these days. I am around Mansfield, not too far from you. Give me a heads up whenever you have a GTG or something of the like.

 

[ECsaws]

VERY nice machining.

Thanks Nick means a lot coming from a pro machinist.... Lots of set up time involved for me doing it this way I can get with in a 1/2 thousand both ways , hard to believe how far off some are rite from the factory, I catch my self second guessing all the time.
well worth the time a effort tho.

Wonder if the dual port muffla would make much of a difference.

I can't imagine that it would....

Jason a dual port very well may make a different depending on the port angles and stuff ... with a duel port I Polly wouldn't add the extra deflector.

the only coplaint i get from guys i mod saws for is now i have to mod all his saws

Ya I know what ya mean the guys I do work for that actually run there saws enough to wear them out love this method .. I get "All I have to do is put a stock piston in this and I'm good to go" . One local faller actually thinks his is a tad better on fuel now also.

 

[little possum]

May I ask how you machine the combustion chamber? Or is it top secret? Seems like that would be the way to go.. But would a pop up add turbulence to the mix?

Great looking work! I know you can do magic on 7900s. Joats was impressive!