Another 361 Question

[Mr.]

Hi

if I remember correctly high RPMs does mean power!

because power is equal to torque x RPM divided by some number I can't remember. So the higher an engine turns the more power it produces from the torque it has. Sounds wierd but in the real world "power" is a pretty meaningless measurement. Torque is what really matters, as it is torque multiplied by revs. that gives you "power".

I may be wrong, as I said it's a long time since I had much to do with calculating power etc. for engines.


Bye

You must be creating the same amount, or more, of torque for your equation to equal more horsepower.

Fred

 

[Monkeyhanger]

The published numbers (Stihl 2005 catalog) for the MS361 is 3.3kW @ 5.6kg (& 5.7kg for the 361C). For the Husky (2006 catalog) the numbers are 2.9kW @ 5.5kg for the 359 and 3.2kW @ 5.5kg for the 357XP.

Try doing your calculations again using the correct figures, instead of relying on what Stihl tells you to believe are 'independant' numbers.

Dear Mr Sap,

don't try to tell me where I got my figures from!

The figures don't come from Stihl but from the "Kuratorium für Wald und Forst" which has no connections whatsoever to either Stihl or Husky! They take the saws and measure them themselves. If you don't believe me then thats your problem.

It is of course easy to fiddle the weights if you keep a bar and chain on the saw. I DID give you the weights WITHOUT a bar and chain for this very reason!

It has also been noticed that Husqvarna is sometimes not very honest when it comes to publishing the weight of its saws. But assuming your husky figures are correct they still have a worse power to weight ratio than the 361 (using the correct values for the 361). You're still wrong.

Anyway the "correct" numbers for the 361 are 3.4kW and 5.6kg!!! To be found on the original Stihl site at www.stihl.de under "produkte" and then under "mittelstarken profi sägen". It is not Stihls fault if somebody in America made a mistake converting the figures for the American Stihl catalogue! Also it doesn't lower the real world kW value of the saw if it's wrong in a catalogue, does it?

You could, of course just go ahead and buy all three saws and measure them yourself! That way you wouldn't be able to make accusations as where the results came from.

But apart from that just what is your problem with Stihl? Did Stihl kill all your children and rape your dog or something? However your Stihl phobia is your problem and not mine, so good luck and get well soon!



Bye and have a nice weekend!




P.S. I'm going to follow the advice of my father-in-law who said "don't argue with dumm people, whether you are right or wrong makes no difference to them", I'm not saying that you are dumm Sap but I'm outta' this thread anyway!

As for horsepower I've dug out the equation:
Horsepower = (torque x rpm) / 5252
So although power and torque are different things they aren't independant of each other.

 

[Mr.]

While both may be a term refering to a measurement of foot pounds, a saw with 'better torque' usually refers to higher foot pound measurements across a wider range of rpms, as opposed to a higher measurement (horsepower) at one point in it's power band.

Usually!!!. Give someone a plastic chainsaw, add water, and you get an expert.

Horsepower is not measured in ft/pounds.

In a perfect world torque would just increas with RPM, but we got this world.

Fred

 

[Mr.]

BTW I only need power for about 750 Rpm.


A crisp throttle is nice though.

Fred

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Leave it to a Stihl dealer to fudge the numbers whenever they can. And being that you appear to have fudged the one number that I could actually check on, your other figures are now also suspect.

OK, rhetorical question-Who's numbers, sources, and info do we trust more? Andy's or Saps?

Sap-Catalogs and stuff online is secondary information to what's in a manual. That's a fact of life anywhere in the engineering world. If you want to do your saw maintenance from the catalog, well go right ahead.

I'm starting to get confused

Manual, don't let anything Sap says confuse you. It should be dismissed by default.

Jeff

 

[04ultra]

I think Andy knows alot more info about saws and people trust him more then Dr.Slappy PHD of ****

 

[coveredinsap]

I think Andy knows alot more info about saws and people trust him more then Dr.Slappy PHD of ****

Yeah...what the hey! When's the last time a Stihl dealer steered you wrong? (!cough! !choke! !cough!)

 

[04ultra]

Yeah...what the hey! When's the last time a Stihl dealer steered you wrong? (!cough! !choke! !cough!)

Never ..We have alot better dealers for Stihl and better service .. I've been to the Husky dealer and they dont even service what they try to sell... LOWES ..LOL

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Yeah...what the hey! When's the last time a Stihl dealer steered you wrong? (!cough! !choke! !cough!)

Never ..We have alot better dealers for Stihl and better service .. I've been to the Husky dealer and they dont even service what they try to sell... LOWES ..LOL

Me neither. Every Stihl dealer I've had has been superb. My Stihl dealer services most of the Huskys sold in this area too, he's that good.

 

[manual]

ok now horse power= torque x rpm /5252
What I am thinking is when you hog that saw into cut. from what I understand Sthil pervails. And if you try this with huskys they got the High rpm but don't seem to handle the load as well as Sthil.
Is that called your power band ?

 

[fisher6355]

You guys can crunch all the numbers you like
I had the opportunity to use both saws for about three hours
then bought me a 361
Better saw hands down

 

[04ultra]

You guys can crunch all the numbers you like
I had the opportunity to use both saws for about three hours
then bought me a 361
Better saw hands down

A 361 is a nice saw ..You'll enjoy it..

 

[manual]

I'm not trying to buy a saw I am trying to get an understanding of peak horse power at what rpm range and am using a 361 and a 359 both being at the same cc rating for examples.

 

[SawTroll]

According to the 2005 Stihl catalog (the latest catalog that my local dealer has) the MS361 has 4.4bhp @ 12.3 lbs and the MS361C has 4.4bhp @ 12.6 lbs. Neither are listed as having '4.6bhp".
The power-to-weight champ in this class is the Husky 357XP.

The published numbers (Stihl 2005 catalog) for the MS361 is 3.3kW @ 5.6kg (& 5.7kg for the 361C). For the Husky (2006 catalog) the numbers are 2.9kW @ 5.5kg for the 359 and 3.2kW @ 5.5kg for the 357XP. ......

You are partly right, but as usual you end up with the wrong conclution. :bang: :bang:

The US 361s are rated at 4.4bhp, as you say. That equals 4.5hp, while the german made 361s are rated at 4.6hp, and also weight a fraction of a pound less than the Virginia beach ones.

The 357xp are rated at 4.4 hp (not bhp) everywhere, and regardless what Husky states, it weights about halv a pound more than the 361. Husky (and Jonsered) are notoriously "optimistic" regarding the weight of their saws, and the 357xp is the worst case (independent testing has shoved 5.9 kp - .4 kg "overweight")....:censored:

 

[SawTroll]

The 361 max RPM is 14,000, max torque is at 9500, ....

Max torque is at much lower rpms (about 7000), max power output is at 9500rpm.

I'm not trying to buy a saw I am trying to get an understanding of peak horse power at what rpm range and am using a 361 and a 359 both being at the same cc rating for examples.

Max rpm rating are 13500 for the 359 and 14000 for the 357xp (earlier it was 13800 if my memory serves). max power output is at 9000 and 9600, respectively.

It would be more fair to compare the MS341 to the 359, than the MS361.

 

[Lakeside53]

Max torque is at much lower rpms (about 7000), max power output is at 9500rpm.

Yes, you are correct about the max power at 9500. I was sloppy with my typing! As for Max torque at 7000, where do you get that number?

 

[manual]

Does the max torque and max power start to drop as rpms go up (after 9500) ?

 

[SawTroll]

.. As for Max torque at 7000, where do you get that number?

KWF/DLG test report.

Does the max torque and max power start to drop as rpms go up (after 9500) ?

Yes, the torque drops off at at relatively steep rate, the power output not so steep, as it is a function of both torque and rpms.

In this case, which is pretty typical, the torque started dropping off at 7000 rpm, but the added rpms more than compensated for it (regarding power output) up to 9500 rpm.
The "power band" is sometimes referred to as the rpm range from max torque to max power output, but I don't feel that it is the whole truth.

In small to medium wood, I think how well the torque are kept up above max power rpms is of great interest. As an exemple, it could be better "high end" performance that makes the 372xp outperform the MS440 and nearly equal the MS460 (?)
For some uses in really large wood the "bottom end" performance is of more interest than max power output.

 

[SawTroll]

... Try doing your calculations again using the correct figures, instead of relying on what Stihl tells you to believe are 'independant' numbers. ....

You are way off this time.:monkey:

Independent test results are of course more trustworthy than factory published (catalog) specs. KWF has nothing to do with Stihl, except for testing their saws, as well as several other brands saws.

 

[Lakeside53]

KWF/DLG test report.

Interesting..

Any chance you could send me a link to it? thanks