Any hope for tulip poplar?

[elliottk]

This dual-trunk tulip poplar just lost 1 side; no adverse weather; it just gave out spontaneously. The remaining tree is about 30" caliper, about 110' tall. With the remaining base structure as shown in the picture, the consensus is that the remaining tree has to come down asap (residential yard, houses all around). The question is -- is there any rational option to resurrect this tree, or do I just give up and take it down?

Thanks for any input.

 

[treeseer]

Yes check the amount of woundwood on the remaining trunk, and poke into the middle to measure rot, and send more pics. It does not look good from here.

 

[Elmore]

Bamboo

Clean up what has fallen and if the remaining portion of the tree does not pose a danger just leave it and keep an eye on it. If it fails or you decide to remove...replace it with Bamboo.

 

[treeseer]

if the remaining portion of the tree does not pose a danger

Brad how can you look at that big black hole and say that?:bang:

just leave it and keep an eye on it. If it fails or you decide to remove...replace it with Bamboo.

Waht if it fails onto his house or his head? Sheesh.

 

[Dadatwins]

110' of poplar tree on that base and houses all around I would not be to comfortable. Looks like it was a twin and unfortunatly I think the remainder must come down also.

 

[elliottk]

Tulip poplar

Thanks for the input. County arborist and tree services all say without question it has to go, and realistically I can accept there's not enough structural integrity to carry the tree through any kind of severe windstorm. It's just a shame to have to waste a tree like this one, so I was looking to see if there were any creative ideas to somehow resurrect it. I suppose if it were not a tulip poplar, where there are maybe 15,000 lbs of uninterrupted trunk before you start getting to branches and leaves ... there might be a way to thin out the crown and reduce weight, improve stability. But then there likely wouldn't be enough foliage left to sustain the tree.

Just hoping there was some way around the worst-case solution. Thanks.

 

[elliottk]

Tulip poplar

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but here is another view of the remaining base, plus an overall view of the downed "twin" and the standing tree. Not that these tell you anything new, I suppose.

 

[treeseer]

Have you probed the cavity to measure the deay yet?

 

[Elmore]

Brad how can you look at that big black hole and say that?:bang: Waht if it fails onto his house or his head? Sheesh.

Now...you know that I was just kidding but if it didn't pose a danger to any Japanese Maples, Ginkgoes, people, animals or structures, in that order, it could be left to it's own or nature's devices. As for the Bamboo replacement, he's already got a head start on that. Sheesh...where's your sense of humor?

 

[elliottk]

Have you probed the cavity to measure the deay yet?

No, unfortunately I'm on the road today and can't get to the tree. I'd say the cavity extends about 1/3 the trunk diameter. What wood is there seems to be in good shape for the most part, but I'm no expert. If there were no houses in range, I would definitely just leave this big guy alone and keep an eye on it. But the hazard and liability is just too large to leave things as they are. But if there was some way to reduce weight, stabilize the base, cable things up somehow, etc., I'd be willing to try.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Nice bamboo grove.

 

[Ekka]

You know that there'd be bugger all roots to the left of that tree as the pic shows, so is the house on the right (when looking at 1st pic)?

It most likely will fail to the right.

Is it hollow, tap it with a mallet and see if it's hollow, I certainly wouldn't be happy with it staying if it were my home. Especially if it's 110' tall of that root base.

 

[arboralliance]

Never say never...

No, unfortunately I'm on the road today and can't get to the tree. I'd say the cavity extends about 1/3 the trunk diameter. What wood is there seems to be in good shape for the most part, but I'm no expert. If there were no houses in range, I would definitely just leave this big guy alone and keep an eye on it. But the hazard and liability is just too large to leave things as they are. But if there was some way to reduce weight, stabilize the base, cable things up somehow, etc., I'd be willing to try.

Of course you could try cabling the tree elliottk...

I created a fall arrest system for a small E. regnans of approximately 150' + height and around 1 meter DBH some years ago as it had a 15 degree lean towards some buildings... (the tree was actually what appeared to be the leaning side of a co-dominant accept there was a meter of ground between the two trunks but you get the drift...)

Perhaps rigging back to a buried ground anchor in your case elliottk or another tree or stable structure as an idea/example...

A series of small lines back to individual clumps of bamboo would create a false anchor system and possibly a work of art...

Anything is possible...

"Try not, do or do not" - Yoda, Jedi Master

Any good rope technique professional, rigger or engineer should be able to assist with options in accordance with an Arborist...

 

[treeseer]

"Try not, do or do not" - Yoda, Jedi Master
.

Master Yoda was also quoted as saying, "Try? There is no try. do or not do, that is all."

I think this tree may be a not-do. Shop around to see what the salvage value is on those logs--they look like veneer size to me. Maybe post the possibility on the logging forum here.

 

[Ekka]

Aren't those poplars notorious for decay and failure most of the time anyway?

I rarely read anything good about them, other than that that are fast growing.

I dont have any personal experience with them, dont get them here. We got this other crap thing called a pencil willow which in every case, 100%, that I have cut down has been rotten and busting/dying failing junk.

 

[elliottk]

Tulip poplar

Yes - the bidder I am going with resells the logs to a local sawmill; offsets the price of the job a bit. Unlike other services in the area, who apparently discard all such wood at landfills ...

Cabling seemed to be a possibility (I had the dual trunks cabled together some years ago, about 60' up). Apparently that cable failed, finally, resulting in the split that put things at this point. As for cabling the remaining tree, I could only cable in 2 directions; the third direction is on another property, which won't allow me to run a cable. Plus nothing of substance to anchor to. No expertise on my part, but I assume if I were trying to guy-wire the remaining tree in place, I'd want each cable with something like a 50K lb working strength, anchored to something that can handle maybe a 30K-40K load. This is based on assuming the remaining tree represents something on the order of 30K lbs of wood.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[treeseer]

I had the dual trunks cabled together some years ago .

That is a heartbreaker. This loss could have been avoided if the cable had been checked periodically, as all cables should. A note to cable installers to INSIST on inspection contracted for at the time of installation, so nobody will forget (hopefully) and have a tragedy like this take place.

 

[patm]

Desperately trying to save my poplar

Please help!

I am the significant other involved with the tulip poplar. To answer earlier queries there is no disease or rot. But in several hours unless the rain starts before the tree cutters get here the tree is coming down. I am trying to save it.

It is an historic tree on an historic property and I can't believe something can't be done, since the tree is healthy.

My solution is to trim the high branches down to where there are still leaves, cutting off about 40 feet of branches and foliage. Then cabling it to fall, if it did, in the direction where there is an acre of woods, missing all houses including our own and the neighbor whose bad landscaping caused the first tree to fall. Fill in the "bare" area where the other tree joined it with appropriate soil, etc., to help hold it in place and keep away disease infestation.

Cabling it would require not going onto the neighbor's property, so it would have to be 3 90 degree angles or 4 or 5 cables.

The neighbor wants the tree down, which is why this has become an immediate issue. One arborist company has said it would last at least 6 months without anything. Another, who has been given the $4500 job to remove it but also works for the neighbor, has said even a rain storm would take it down. Well, we have had major wind all day today and it is still there, so I think they want the money since they are pressuring us to have it done in the tropical storm today even though we have asked them to wait a week.

I know most of you won't get this before it is too late (unless Gaia intervenes with such bad weather they have to stop), but we have a bunch of others that the neighbor will go after next so perhaps you can save them, if not this one.

 

[treeseer]

there is no disease or rot.

I've been asking from the start, are you sure? Has anyone probed the base to find out?

the tree is healthy.

the condition of the leaves is irrelevant. the condition of the stem and branches is barely relevant compared to the base.

My solution is to trim the high branches down to where there are still leaves, cutting off about 40 feet of branches and foliage. Then cabling it to fall, if it did, in the direction where there is an acre of woods,Fill in the "bare" area where the other tree joined it with appropriate soil, etc., to help hold it in place and keep away disease infestation.

This is a terrible idea. the trunk would certainly rot, and all growth would be weakly attached. Also that acre of woods has good trees that would be ruined if the Liriodendron fails. Also there is no way to prevent decay of the exposed wood at the base.

bad landscaping caused the first tree to fall.

Please elaborate. Elliott said the cable failed.

we have a bunch of others that the neighbor will go after next so perhaps you can save them, if not this one.

This storm is not that strong--it's no Isabel--, but if it was mine I would want it down sooner rather than later. Sounds like you have a complex neighbor issue and a simpler tree issue. The cable failed, and the tree carries a high degree of risk, depending on the condition of the base and the shape of the crown and the vagaries of the weather.

Time to say goodbye. Next time you have a cable installed, have it inspected and maintained regularly. Same goes for the rest of your trees--give them an ounce of prevention with regular care by an arborist, rather than $4500 of cure by panicmongers.

 

[Ekka]

Please help!

I am the significant other involved with the tulip poplar. To answer earlier queries there is no disease or rot. But in several hours unless the rain starts before the tree cutters get here the tree is coming down. I am trying to save it.


Another, who has been given the $4500 job to remove it but also works for the neighbor, has said even a rain storm would take it down.

Now I'm confused.

You want to save the tree but booked the crew to cut it down?

I often say people need a psychiatrist not an arborist. :hmm3grin2orange:

But it offers an insight to the odd occasion when you pull up to a booked job and the customer does a 180 on you and wastes your time by cancelling.