Anyone Know Anything About Vintage Cat D7 Dozers? Trying to Rescue a Non-Running One...

[bulletpruf]

So, I'm thinking about buying a non-running D7D 17A project; should be about 1959 vintge. It's complete, said to have been running (but not running well) about 10 years ago. Owner thinks it's was having fuel issues.

It has a hydraulic blade, electric start, Hyster D7D winch. Engine is a 4 cylinder turbo, but based on the block casting, it appears to be a later D7E engine.

This would be my first piece of heavy equipment. I've been wrenching on muscle cars and trucks on and off for decades. Also have some diesel experience - Ford 7.3 IDI and PS and a pair of Detroit diesels in a boat decades ago. Now that I'm retired from the Army, I have more time to take on something challenging like this. FYI - I certainly realize that it would make more sense to buy something in better condition, but I'm not necessarily after the smartest course of action.

Anyway, back to the D7. I haven't seen it in person yet; it's 1.5 hours away from me. Going tomorrow to check it out in person. Before I buy it, I'd like to get it running, if at all possible.

Owner said he has an old set of batteries from a D4; believe the D7 should be 24V.

And this is where I could use some help. I'm familiar with the process of starting a car or truck that hasn't been running in years, but a 64 year old D7 is another situation altogether. Anyone want to take a stab at the process you'd use and the tools you'd bring?

I do have a pushbutton starter switch that will hook to the starter solenoid with alligator clips. I should be able to figure out which terminal is the S terminal on the solenoid. I'll bring ether, but I'm not a big fan of the stuff. What about getting fuel to the injectors? If I bring a 5 gallon can of diesel, can I use an electric fuel pump to get the diesel to the injectors somehow? I suspect the rack is likely stuck, so I'll check this first.

 

[grizz55chev]

There are a lot of guys on y tube that are experts at reviving these old Cats, I recommend you visit Diesel Creek, Matt is very good at getting these old classics back into service. Fuel issues can be a challenge, but I've seen him bring much worse looking rigs back to life with a basic knowledge of where to start and what to look for. With the electric start, you are well ahead of the game. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[bulletpruf]

There are a lot of guys on y tube that are experts at reviving these old Cats, I recommend you visit Diesel Creek, Matt is very good at getting these old classics back into service. Fuel issues can be a challenge, but I've seen him bring much worse looking rigs back to life with a basic knowledge of where to start and what to look for. With the electric start, you are well ahead of the game. Good luck and keep us posted!

I've watched a bunch of Diesel Creek videos, so I know enough to be dangerous, I think!

 

[grizz55chev]

I've watched a bunch of Diesel Creek videos, so I know enough to be dangerous, I think!

I'd start with looking for the bleeder valve at the fuel rack while cranking the engine over. I'm no expert either, but like you, I know enough to be dangerous! Dirty fuel filters and stuck fuel racks will make you pull you hair out! Love the old iron though.

 

[slowcar281]

That’s a cool old dozer! We have a D7 and D8 at work but they H models and from the early 70s.

There is probably a manual primer pump on it somewhere. You will need new fuel filters. The diesel fuel that’s in the tank will probably be ok, as long as there isn’t water in it. You might need to manually bleed the injectors at the rack.

Bring extra batteries! Not sure what it takes exactly but it’s probably something similar to a 4D

If it turns over ok, don’t be afraid to use a little ether.

 

[J&J]

Cool Dozer, I have a D-6 the little brother to that Same vintage. I am trying to find some pictures of it but I don't seem to have very many. You are on the right track with everything you already said you have thought about in planning to head over there. There pretty simple to work on and don't really require to much for tools I would just take a good bag full of SAE. Definitely pull the rack and clean it, that may have been the original fuel issue super simple and will prevent issues once you get it started. I cant remember ever having to manually prime it so I am not sure if there is one or not. If you have a way to pressure the fuel tank could help push fuel up. Mine has a pony motor so I cant help with how long it will crank with batteries but I would take extra batteries and cables. If she starts and runs go for it as long as its a pretty good deal I love playing with mine. Cat seems to have most parts available or can easily be made. like I said really simple machines.

 

[James Sawyer]

1st check the clutch make sure it not stuck. Those old cat have hand clutch and when parked they should be lock or engage like car clutch. some time they stick. just make sure it spins free before you start it. With transmission make sure it in Neutral disengages the clutch and there should be plate on the floor to access the clutch... you should be able to spin the clutch with your foot is with a little effort. If not, there are a series of bolt that tighten the pressure plate to the flywheel loosen them and you should be able to spin the pressure plate off a bit it's like a big screw. It's been lot years since I adjusted the clutch in one of these old cats but the pressure plate spin and out to adjust the clutch. I'd drain the fuel and pull the fuel filter and check it, but you're going need some batteries to bleed the rack. But I've started my cat on two big car batteries, but it won't crank over very long. Or... if the clutch is free and you don't think the diesel doesn't have agley growing in. break loose one of the injectors and prime the system with the pump... if Deisel is leaking out tighten that injector. Give it a shot of ether and turn it over hope it starts smoking.

 

[bulletpruf]

1st check the clutch make sure it not stuck. Those old cat have hand clutch and when parked they should be lock or engage like car clutch. some time they stick. just make sure it spins free before you start it. With transmission make sure it in Neutral disengages the clutch and there should be plate on the floor to access the clutch... you should be able to spin the clutch with your foot is with a little effort. If not, there are a series of bolt that tighten the pressure plate to the flywheel loosen them and you should be able to spin the pressure plate off a bit it's like a big screw. It's been lot years since I adjusted the clutch in one of these old cats but the pressure plate spin and out to adjust the clutch. I'd drain the fuel and pull the fuel filter and check it, but you're going need some batteries to bleed the rack. But I've started my cat on two big car batteries, but it won't crank over very long. Or... if the clutch is free and you don't think the diesel doesn't have agley growing in. break loose one of the injectors and prime the system with the pump... if Deisel is leaking out tighten that injector. Give it a shot of ether and turn it over hope it starts smoking.

Can you please tell me how to bleed the rack? That's where we got hung up today. Didn't realize you needed power to do that.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Ok, so today was a GREAT day!

Got on the road at 6:15. Picked up sidekick at 6:30. Got to dozer at 8:45. Owner was there waiting for us; he's a really good dude, 5th generation on their 550 acre cattle ranch. His dad bought the D7 10 or so years ago from a neighbor who lived a few miles away. They were going to use it to clear some of the land, and when you have a 550 acre ranch, I think you can justify a D7 to clear land.

Dozer was easy to get to. Didn't need to break out the chainsaw or weed-whacker. Just like you see in the pics.

The owner had 4 big freaking batteries in the back of his truck. I think the smaller ones were 4D's, but they were dead. The larger ones had 11.5 volts each, and look like they've been sitting in a shed for a decade or two.

We got unloaded and got the generator fired up (sidekick has a Honda generator) and got two chargers going on the big batteries.

Then we checked fluids and such - good on antifreeze, good on fuel, good on engine oil, milkshake in the transmission...gonna have to pretend we didn't see that...

Checked for air filter and it had been deleted at some point. Ruh-roh. Mice had made it into the turbo on the cold side, but not a worst case scenario. Just had to clean it out a bit.

Then started on fuel system, and that's where we ran into a problem. Injector rack seems to be immobile. But wasn't able to get it moving and the parts between the rack and the fuel filter are throwing me for a loop. Will have to wait for me to download pics and video, but we didn't want to force the issue, so we buttoned it back up for the time being.

Fuel filters (3) all had fuel in them; they were all full. And tank is gravity feeding the first fuel filter (small wire screen), so we don't have an obstruction between the tank and the first fuel filter. Fuel filters look almost new; we saw old filters laying in box that must have been changed out the last time someone tried to start it.

At that point, we figured we wouldn't be able to start it, but we could at least try to turn it over.

Starter was already wired with a pushbutton and we ohm'ed all the wires and everything checked out, including working pushbutton. We then built some quick 2/0 cables to connect the 12v batteries in series for a 24v system. Used the positive wire that was already in place because it ohm'ed fine and it was in good shape.

I was worried about a stuck rack and WOT/runaway engine if it started, but I really didn't think there was much chance of it lighting off immediately. I also had a thick denim shirt sitting right next to the intake; I could have smothered it if it caught.

Verified all controls were in neutral and then hit the starter. Almost forgot - no real way that I could see to turn it over manually, at least not at the front of the engine. Anyway, the sumbitch spun over quickly! No funny noises, just nice and smooth! I was turning it over with the compression release in the "start" position, so it wasn't building much compression. No smoke, so it wasn't getting any fuel that I could tell. Second time I turned it over, it spun for a second and then I switched the compression release to "run" position and it definitely has compression; really slowed it down.

Seller was there watching and he was certainly happy to see the engine turn over. He did mention that the winch was turning as I was cranking the engine, so that's a problem that we need to address; can't be using battery/starter power to turn the winch. The problem is the two controls for the winch -- one is "bluetooth" (i.e., cable is busted) and the other is frozen in position. Anyone have any ideas on how to disengage a Hyster D7 winch that has MIA and frozen control levers?

Anyway, at this point, we called it a day. Seller was leaving to go out of town for work for a few weeks and sidekick had to be back to for parental duties, so we packed up and headed home. Batteries also weren't happy from having to turn the engine and the winch.

I have pics and video. I'll post pics here when I get a chance, and I'll work on editing the video to put up on the YouTube channel.

Next step - figure out the fuel system, source an air filter, figure out how to disengage the winch, and plan the next trip!

Thanks for all the input!!!

Scott

 

[ATpro]

If you get it running next stop is check the tracks out really good, it can be expensive replacing part for track and rail system.

 

[bulletpruf]

If you get it running next stop is check the tracks out really good, it can be expensive replacing part for track and rail system.

Already done. Grousers have been built up recently, but I'm not sure why. The pads are paper thin and worn the he11 out. Looks like just about all the undercarriage bits are no longer available new except maybe the rollers.

 

[bulletpruf]

Cool Dozer, I have a D-6 the little brother to that Same vintage. I am trying to find some pictures of it but I don't seem to have very many. You are on the right track with everything you already said you have thought about in planning to head over there. There pretty simple to work on and don't really require to much for tools I would just take a good bag full of SAE. Definitely pull the rack and clean it, that may have been the original fuel issue super simple and will prevent issues once you get it started. I cant remember ever having to manually prime it so I am not sure if there is one or not. If you have a way to pressure the fuel tank could help push fuel up. Mine has a pony motor so I cant help with how long it will crank with batteries but I would take extra batteries and cables. If she starts and runs go for it as long as its a pretty good deal I love playing with mine. Cat seems to have most parts available or can easily be made. like I said really simple machines.

That's a sweet D6! Is it a 9U? My great uncle and his son ran a pair of D6's starting in the 1950s. Great uncle was still running one a few days before he died at age 90.

 

[bulletpruf]

That’s a cool old dozer! We have a D7 and D8 at work but they H models and from the early 70s.

There is probably a manual primer pump on it somewhere. You will need new fuel filters. The diesel fuel that’s in the tank will probably be ok, as long as there isn’t water in it. You might need to manually bleed the injectors at the rack.

Bring extra batteries! Not sure what it takes exactly but it’s probably something similar to a 4D

If it turns over ok, don’t be afraid to use a little ether.

The first fuel filter was full. The other two were full, too. Diesel looked pretty good.

Got hung up on getting the rack freed. Any thoughts? Is it totally mechanical or do I need power to get it to operate?

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

I'd start with looking for the bleeder valve at the fuel rack while cranking the engine over. I'm no expert either, but like you, I know enough to be dangerous! Dirty fuel filters and stuck fuel racks will make you pull you hair out! Love the old iron though.

Yep. Pulling hair out over stuck rack.

 

[lwmibc]

Hyster winch controls: If like mine (Hyster D4E) you should have 3 levers, I couldn't see from photos if they were there as expected.

Left hand one is engage/free spool, it should be in the rearward (actually probably centre or straight up) position for free spool, forward for engaged. When engaged the main clutch operates the winch.

Center lever--the tall one--should be brake, it will be the one with the pall and ratchet segment. Pull back for brake on, forward to release.

Right hand lever is forward/reverse; forward for payout, rearward for haul in.

 

[James Sawyer]

The carriage is half the value of the cat. How's the drives sprockets are they oval out? Reach under the rails and feel the pins are they flat on both sides, if not you can rotate the pins. If the pins are flat on both side, they've been rotated already. The rails have spec measurements, measure the height from the bottom of Grousers to bottom of the rail. The delta tells what percentage the carriage is.

Around here there is couple places you can get parts, there use to be a guy in Salem Oregon "Randy Cole" who specialized in undercarriage and shipped. Sorry I don't have his number anymore. Also, there was guy who specialized in old cat like you're in Amity, Oregon... it's kind of heavy Equipment wrecking yards. I sure there are company similar closure to your area. Are the front Idlers thin? The carriage is everything on those old cats, unless you have flat ground on your place if runs out of the tracks all the time that is not a fun job. I'm thinking that cat weight is +55K.

Have the injector rail rebuilt can be expensive and setup there should be lots of place near you that can give idea what that would cost. Interesting it frozen up. When you turn the motor over did it spin long enough to see the oil pressure come up. Hope you can get it running so you can check out the steering clutch and the finials? The winch shouldn't be too bad to fix but make sure the hook if off the cable if it's spinning. The shuttle probable froze. You'll be amazed what a D7 can do. Best of luck hope it all works out.

 

[grizz55chev]

The carriage is half the value of the cat. How's the drives sprockets are they oval out? Reach under the rails and feel the pins are they flat on both sides, if not you can rotate the pins. If the pins are flat on both side, they've been rotated already. The rails have spec measurements, measure the height from the bottom of Grousers to bottom of the rail. The delta tells what percentage the carriage is.

Around here there is couple places you can get parts, there use to be a guy in Salem Oregon "Randy Cole" who specialized in undercarriage and shipped. Sorry I don't have his number anymore. Also, there was guy who specialized in old cat like you're in Amity, Oregon... it's kind of heavy Equipment wrecking yards. I sure there are company similar closure to your area. Are the front Idlers thin? The carriage is everything on those old cats, unless you have flat ground on your place if runs out of the tracks all the time that is not a fun job. I'm thinking that cat weight is +55K.

Have the injector rail rebuilt can be expensive and setup there should be lots of place near you that can give idea what that would cost. Interesting it frozen up. When you turn the motor over did it spin long enough to see the oil pressure come up. Hope you can get it running so you can check out the steering clutch and the finials? The winch shouldn't be too bad to fix but make sure the hook if off the cable if it's spinning. The shuttle probable froze. You'll be amazed what a D7 can do. Best of luck hope it all works out.

I've watched Squatch do the pin turning on the tracks, it's quite time and labor intensive! The man is a perfectionist when it comes to working on these old tractors! His videos are top notch!

 

[James Sawyer]

To answer your question, about bleeding the rack every system is a little different, so I not sure how your is. But in general, there should be a pump and a valve, open the valve and you should be able to get fuel up to that point with the pump. Close the valve and crack the fuel lines fitting at each injector. I'm not sure if the pump will push fuel up to that point on your system but it might... otherwise you have to spin the motor over to push fuel to the injectors. Those fuel fitting don't have to be opened that much 1/2 turn maybe 1 turn. As the fuel pressure comes up you see the cracked fitting start to get wet keep... priming until you get a good flow. Close the fittings down a bit, it may start smoking at that point and it may even fire on a few cylinders. You might give it a shot of Ether, but not to much. Believe it or not you can coast start those cats if you have something that can pull it, if the carriage is decent... they roll pretty easy. I used to coast start mine old cat all the time until I replaced the pony motor with electric starter.

 

[James Sawyer]

I've watched Squatch do the pin turning on the tracks, it's quite time and labor intensive! The man is a perfectionist when it comes to working on these old tractors! His videos are top notch!

yup... most of those guys who do that have q hydraulic press with roller table arrangements. It's a lot of work and you have break all the Grousers off.

We used to get a railroad tie and drill a hole thru it and get old car axle. Then run the rail master link around to the front idler then use the tie and axle to pound the master link. Once the tracks are broke run the cat to the end of the tracks. If you block the dozer, it lifts the front of the cat but you'll have jack the rear.

 

[ATpro]

Like James said "The carriage is half the value of the cat" at this point It's not worth more than scrap iron price. If you can't get it running and can assess to cost of repair think I would pass this up.