cedarbarn
ArboristSite Lurker
I think the front axle seal in my Toyota 4x4 leaks more gear oil than my chainsaw slings off the bar. I could be wrong, I have been wrong before.
Bar Oil
- Thread starter SteveH
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Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
BlueRidgeMark. If you plan on switching it has been my experience in central Ohio that Sam's Club always has the best prices on food grade oils. They also have a large selection and it can be viewed on line. I still use soybean oil for short bars and it works well. The high stability oils did work better. The cheapest oils performed okay but consumed a lot more. I use the cheap ones. I have had no issues with it becoming gummy in the tank or plugging up oil passages. I have had it carbonize to the chain and bar but no more than cheap petro oils. It did not affect performance. This topic is strangely sensitive to some, that I do not understand. I hope when you switch it works out for you. Good luck.
To clarify things, I am a chainsaw collector and casual user. I rebuild my own saws and use them. I collect all brands. Last year I consumed over 50 gals of mix and 60 gals of bar oil(seed oil and home brew) cutting trees up. I have not bought branded bar oil in over a year. If you include rebuild and tuning the amounts would be much higher. I do not want to be misleading. I do not log or make my living with a chainsaw. Chainsaws cost me money, lots of it, much more than I will ever admit to in public.
To clarify things, I am a chainsaw collector and casual user. I rebuild my own saws and use them. I collect all brands. Last year I consumed over 50 gals of mix and 60 gals of bar oil(seed oil and home brew) cutting trees up. I have not bought branded bar oil in over a year. If you include rebuild and tuning the amounts would be much higher. I do not want to be misleading. I do not log or make my living with a chainsaw. Chainsaws cost me money, lots of it, much more than I will ever admit to in public.
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Just wondering if the old ranger pick up ever leaked any oil?? I use Stihl bar oil with good results..
THALL10326
The Champ
Elmore said:Hey THALL...you sell some STIHL brand bar & chain oil and I hear that each lubricant comes with a smile...
Is it as good as the line of saws? What kind of vegetable oils are used in the BIO product? Which would you recommend?
STIHL Bar and Chain Oil is formulated to adhere to the bar and chain, and to reduce wear. Special agents in the oil formulation help keep sap and pitch from clinging to the bar and chain.
STIHL BioPlus™ oil is made with a vegetable Oil Base. This means that the oil is less harmful to humans, animals, micro-organisms and plants.
Elmore fine sir you are 100% correct. I sell not bottles but cases of it and have never once had one single complaint. I must say though I have never sold one single bottle of BioPlus oil. Some apparently aren't worried about the earth as much as others. I do use Crsico for frying popcorn but I will not use it in my saws nor recomend anyone else to do so either. When the owners manual from the maker suggests using veggie oil then only and only then will I suggest it. I think the makers of their products know much more than the people buying them.
You are correct as well, buy a plain ole sticky case of bar oil from me and you will get a big ole smile outs of me everytime. Just like the Stihl girls smile when you mention my name, they know a fine outstanding man when they hear his name,hehe............
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
OK Gentelmen..........
If I may, I think I have a solution for this!!!!! How about a simi-scintific test of sorts?
I have become intuiged to say the least now, and if this does work out, I am all for not having to support the oil industry any more than I have to, as well as being a tighta&& I am not afraid to save a buck or two in the proccess. But I am very sceptical to say the least.
My idea: 1)find a semi-impartial judge (this is the hard part) with 2 identical saws.
2) we all chip in, say 5 bones, be nice if the judge has paypal for simpicity sake.) to purchase 2 identical new bar and chains ( we should use Dolmars to save on the bias factor I am guessing)
3) run them equally in wood, 1 with regular bar oil, the other with the cheapest vegtable oil to be found.
4) after a month measure the wear on both and see what the conclusions are.
The next phase is trickier: find some way to simulate an oil tank and pump to see how long it takes to actually gum it up with veggie oil, if it even does.
Then we can all sit back and debate the out come. And no one person is out the whole amount for a wasted bar and chain, if it does happen. Seem like a fair deal to everyone?
Andy
If I may, I think I have a solution for this!!!!! How about a simi-scintific test of sorts?
I have become intuiged to say the least now, and if this does work out, I am all for not having to support the oil industry any more than I have to, as well as being a tighta&& I am not afraid to save a buck or two in the proccess. But I am very sceptical to say the least.
My idea: 1)find a semi-impartial judge (this is the hard part) with 2 identical saws.
2) we all chip in, say 5 bones, be nice if the judge has paypal for simpicity sake.) to purchase 2 identical new bar and chains ( we should use Dolmars to save on the bias factor I am guessing)
3) run them equally in wood, 1 with regular bar oil, the other with the cheapest vegtable oil to be found.
4) after a month measure the wear on both and see what the conclusions are.
The next phase is trickier: find some way to simulate an oil tank and pump to see how long it takes to actually gum it up with veggie oil, if it even does.
Then we can all sit back and debate the out come. And no one person is out the whole amount for a wasted bar and chain, if it does happen. Seem like a fair deal to everyone?
Andy
LarryTheCableGuy
Addicted to ArboristSite
I highly doubt it.04ultra said:
I have been wondering why in the world he changed the oil "every 2,000 miles since it was new". No good reason to do that with modern lubricants and an engine that is mechanically sound. The TBN and add pack should be good for MUCH longer than that, couldn't be fuel dilution if he cares that much about the environment? Sheared out of grade? Nah.
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Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
I do not think that would be needed. Petro based bar oils are vastly better bar lubes, that should not be doubted. The issue is the ability to use something that can do the job without as many harmful issues.
If you do not believe that long term surface based petro oil accumulation is harmful than the debate is over. You are wrong. It is that simple.:angry2:
Environmental impact is measured over time and usually way downstream.
Petro oils are not biodegradable, they dispersible. Very different.:monkey:
As much of this thread has pointed out, many people are wrong most of the time. While petro oil does come from the earth it is still a poison. All of the good poisons come from the earth. If they came from space that would make them alien and that would be to spoooooooooooky.
If you do not want to use a seed oil, while you still can, do not. :hmm3grin2orange:
Also do not tell people that seed oils are as good as petro oils, they are not. A simple ball bearing test proves that.
It is amazing that the debate is over which works better. That is not the issue. The issue should be which works the best while doing the least long term damage. Another issue for debate is which is a better use of oil.
Remember with almost every new consumer saw sold a gallon of oil is sold. Not to mention commercial use. Tally up total gallons sold per year and that is alot of oil being field sprayed.
Thanks to Larry for reminder about rule 12.
If you do not believe that long term surface based petro oil accumulation is harmful than the debate is over. You are wrong. It is that simple.:angry2:
Environmental impact is measured over time and usually way downstream.
Petro oils are not biodegradable, they dispersible. Very different.:monkey:
As much of this thread has pointed out, many people are wrong most of the time. While petro oil does come from the earth it is still a poison. All of the good poisons come from the earth. If they came from space that would make them alien and that would be to spoooooooooooky.
If you do not want to use a seed oil, while you still can, do not. :hmm3grin2orange:
Also do not tell people that seed oils are as good as petro oils, they are not. A simple ball bearing test proves that.
It is amazing that the debate is over which works better. That is not the issue. The issue should be which works the best while doing the least long term damage. Another issue for debate is which is a better use of oil.
Remember with almost every new consumer saw sold a gallon of oil is sold. Not to mention commercial use. Tally up total gallons sold per year and that is alot of oil being field sprayed.
Thanks to Larry for reminder about rule 12.
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coveredinsap said:
Well, the STIHL saws i use don't "spew" oil. I can hardly get the chain to throw any off when held next to a block of wood. And the little bit that gets thrown off the bar does not equal up to I would say a gallon every couple years. I'm sure mother earth can take care of what came from her in the first place.
I think, but I'm no expert on this, that you starting your truck does more to pollute then me running my saw for a day.
Seriously....get off that stump your on. Equating using corn oil as bar and chain lube, but not taking any other measure to reduce pollution, all the while calling those that disagree with your choice of bar lube dupes, is in and of itself hypocritical. Also...if all your doing to save the planet is use corn oil in your saw, you have a long way to go. I'm sure that old truck of yours is in tip top shape, doesn't leak or burn any oil, gets the best mileage for a newer vehicle in its class......
The "Landfill" thread wasn't started as a "your way is better than mine." I started it because I was bored, and there are allot of people who think its a simple as throwing trash in a hole and covering it up. As far as dumping oil in the fill...go right ahead. There are no treatment facilities on-site, it gets pumped to the same place what you flush down your toilet goes to.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ok Justsaws, just for the fun of it, her's another perspective: I do not argue the virtues of petrol being better than veggie, I truly believe that it will wear more with veggie. I also do not believe that petrol spewing all over is a really good thing either. I also, like some others, have gotten fed up with wearing bar oil the rest of the day, not that veggie may not be any better, but you don't smell as bad.
BUT........ What if the lesser cost of the veggie far outweighs the actual wear of the bar and chain? Say you're bar lasts 15% longer with petrol vs. veggie, but with a savings of 75% on oil, that may well be incentive to switch. The oil would far outweigh the extra cost of the wear. Hence the test, I want to know the actual wear differences between the two to see which one is justified in the end! And if it is a cost effective move, I am all for it, especially if it makes the tree hugger types quite for a bit!!!
Andy
BUT........ What if the lesser cost of the veggie far outweighs the actual wear of the bar and chain? Say you're bar lasts 15% longer with petrol vs. veggie, but with a savings of 75% on oil, that may well be incentive to switch. The oil would far outweigh the extra cost of the wear. Hence the test, I want to know the actual wear differences between the two to see which one is justified in the end! And if it is a cost effective move, I am all for it, especially if it makes the tree hugger types quite for a bit!!!
Andy
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Enviromental improvements are first tried in baby steps, when the baby hesitates a small push, when it refuses to walk a firm shove. If the baby sits down and refuses to get up an adult sized boot to the lazy, stubborn, ignorant infant's backside.
This seems to be the way environmental laws are mandated and enforced in the playground I live in. If seed oil lubes are not working for you, demand better from your dealer because it might/will be the only option in the future.
50:1 fuel mix ratios, compensating carbs., low output oilers, smaller engines with higher RPMs, availability of branded bio-oil should be an indicator where this ride ends. Consumers have to tell retailers they want better items if they actually want to get them.
This seems to be the way environmental laws are mandated and enforced in the playground I live in. If seed oil lubes are not working for you, demand better from your dealer because it might/will be the only option in the future.
50:1 fuel mix ratios, compensating carbs., low output oilers, smaller engines with higher RPMs, availability of branded bio-oil should be an indicator where this ride ends. Consumers have to tell retailers they want better items if they actually want to get them.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
I guess I am in "push" mode then.
I think if we could find an impartial judge to test the effects and post them, good bad or indifferent, it would be good for all involved!
I am not arguing that petrol is better, I want to how much better. I am also curious if veggie last as long or if you use more, less or the same amounts of both. I can see a lot of questions being ansewrd very easily with this as well as quickly.
I am by no means trying to start a "Pi$$ing contest" with anyone, we have enough of that going on now, just scientificly curious how much worse, or better one is than the other then we can put this to rest! And no one person is out the cost of it all.
Andy
I think if we could find an impartial judge to test the effects and post them, good bad or indifferent, it would be good for all involved!
I am not arguing that petrol is better, I want to how much better. I am also curious if veggie last as long or if you use more, less or the same amounts of both. I can see a lot of questions being ansewrd very easily with this as well as quickly.
I am by no means trying to start a "Pi$$ing contest" with anyone, we have enough of that going on now, just scientificly curious how much worse, or better one is than the other then we can put this to rest! And no one person is out the cost of it all.
Andy
coveredinsap
Addicted to ArboristSite
CaseyForrest said:
Any oil leaking from vehicles does so on designated concrete or gravel driveways, which is certainly much different than spewing oil all over one's yard or property. And your saws must be different than mine....I went thru a gallon of bar oil milling 4 3'x8' cedar logs. That's a gallon of oil I spewed on my gravel parking area. And most saws do 'spew'...you just don't notice how much oil it really is because it is largely dispersed as a fine mist. And everywhere you set down your saw is a small puddle of oil too (at best).
Anyways, the point is...I choose not to spew petroleum oil all over the property I own. You are free to do whatever you like.
So its ok for your vehicle to leak oil, but not your saws? I dont believe it matters WHAT its leaking on, it still ends up either in the ground, or the storm sewer.
I dont want to argue with you....Just that you saying spewing a little oil out of your saw, and leaking motor oil on the ground arent equally as bad, doesnt make sense.
If you used corn oil for the milling you did, I can see how youd go through a gallon. When I mill I use Stihl summer weight bar oil, and I can go all day on half a gallon of oil, thats equivalent of buring about 2 gallons of fuel mix.
I dont want to argue with you....Just that you saying spewing a little oil out of your saw, and leaking motor oil on the ground arent equally as bad, doesnt make sense.
If you used corn oil for the milling you did, I can see how youd go through a gallon. When I mill I use Stihl summer weight bar oil, and I can go all day on half a gallon of oil, thats equivalent of buring about 2 gallons of fuel mix.
coveredinsap
Addicted to ArboristSite
CaseyForrest said:
No, I milled with regular bar oil, not corn oil.
And there is nothing I can do about the few drips....and I repeat, few drips that might come out of my vehicles. I can do something about the chainsaws spewing bar oil everywhere, however.
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sawenredneck, I too have no desire to piss with anyone in a contest. Do the contestants stand facing each other, is there a fire to put out, can women play, or is more about volume and distance.
There could be savings in the switch. I think it would largely depend on the user. The saws that I use seed oil in seem to be holding up fine, I have not noticed any early wear, now. When I first tried it I torched a chain, wrong saw, to fast to weak/lame of a oiler. Now that I know what it can do I have no issues on slower saws with shorter bars. I still use petro based oils in my other saws. I started using it because I have an area that I buck logs in, that area gets thick with saw dust and therefore with oil. You could see oil slick if a puddle formed. It made me think about reducing my usage of petro oils, it was an easy place to do it.
There could be savings in the switch. I think it would largely depend on the user. The saws that I use seed oil in seem to be holding up fine, I have not noticed any early wear, now. When I first tried it I torched a chain, wrong saw, to fast to weak/lame of a oiler. Now that I know what it can do I have no issues on slower saws with shorter bars. I still use petro based oils in my other saws. I started using it because I have an area that I buck logs in, that area gets thick with saw dust and therefore with oil. You could see oil slick if a puddle formed. It made me think about reducing my usage of petro oils, it was an easy place to do it.
There is something you can do if your vehicle is leaking any type of fluid, get it fixed. They are called "seals," and they make and replace them every day.
coveredinsap
Addicted to ArboristSite
CaseyForrest said:
Um, they don't leak....which is what I tried to tell you from the get-go. It's you that is saying they leak, not me.
coveredinsap said:
Ironic, only a few posts apart. You did not make it clear here they don't leak anything.
What did you just say earlier, "its not a lie if you believe it."
Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sawenredneck, I found that it 1/3 to 1/2 more soy oil to lube the bar. The oil is very thin compared to a quality bar lube. Some saws required adjusting, some did not. The older saws with both manual and automatic oilers worked well. Also, it worked better on sprocket bars than hard tip. The seed oil worked best if the bar was flooded and you sprayed oil off the tip. I would usually run out of oil before gas, so it takes some getting used to. It does not hold up to running a chain that is dull in the least. I will look at some notes that I made when I get home to see if I forgot anything. I would be happy to run like saws, side by side this fall and winter and let you know. I would do this free of charge as I like to compare things myself. By then I might understand the d### camera enough to post pictures. I could easily post measurements and condition statements. I do not want to sound as though I am pushing seed oil that is not my intention. Mostly I am bored and tired of reading arguments that are completely pointless.
For those that care, if someone is baiting you and you bite, they win.
For those that care, if someone is baiting you and you bite, they win.
cedarbarn
ArboristSite Lurker
There is freaking petroleum spread in tons with gravel to make asphalt streets. It is not as thin as my bar oil, but it does run when it is hot enough. Everytime it rains I can see all the oil running off the roads, from the asphalt and the cars.
"Every year oily road runoff from a city of 5 million could contain as much oil as one large tanker spill." http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/peril_oil_pollution.html
If you dont want to use petroleum based bar oil, so be it. The lack of petroleum film spread on your yard may be reduced but your "positive" effect on the environement will be litterally a drop in the bucket.
I use petroleum based bar oil because IMHO cutting in 101F heat (like today here in Texas) with a hot saw the vegetable oils would be too thin.
"Every year oily road runoff from a city of 5 million could contain as much oil as one large tanker spill." http://seawifs.gsfc.nasa.gov/OCEAN_PLANET/HTML/peril_oil_pollution.html
If you dont want to use petroleum based bar oil, so be it. The lack of petroleum film spread on your yard may be reduced but your "positive" effect on the environement will be litterally a drop in the bucket.
I use petroleum based bar oil because IMHO cutting in 101F heat (like today here in Texas) with a hot saw the vegetable oils would be too thin.
