barberchair

[Baz]

I had a tree barberchair today. It was @ 12" dbh, warty bark, light-colored yellow-green wood (hackberry, maybe), seemed healthy. Anyway, I thought barberchairing happened when a tree was badly cut. Does this mean I screwed up my cuts? My back cut was @ 1/2 " above the bottom of my face cut.

 

[Husky137]

Some species are more prone to barber chair because of wood grain structure, internal stresses (leaners) etc, especially more apt to happen when making a the back cut too slowly because of dull chain.

How do you know tree was healthy if not sure of tree type?

 

[DonnyO]

Some species are more prone to barber chair because of wood grain structure, internal stresses (leaners) etc, especially more apt to happen when making a the back cut too slowly because of dull chain.

How do you know tree was healthy if not sure of tree type?

HMMMMM........opcorn:

 

[lawson's tree s]

you definitly want to be carefull was there any pressure on the tree?

 

[Baz]

The tree had a lean of about 10 degrees in the direction I wanted it to fall. As far as the health of the tree, that was a guess- no dead branches, no rot. It was crowded at the base with two other trees.

 

[Ianab]

The tree had a lean of about 10 degrees in the direction I wanted it to fall.

That will be your reason...

When I'm cutting trees on an angle like that I use a bore cut and holding strap at the back. Cut your notch like normal, although it doesn't have to be as deep as usual. Then plunge cut into the centre of the tree, cut foward to form a hinge and back, leaving a strap of wood at the back. Remove the saw, get ready on your escape path, cut the holding wood from the back and get out of the way

As your hinge is formed before the tree starts to fall you dont have the situation where you are racing to get the cut exactly right before it starts to move.

Cheers

Ian

 

[pbtree]

That will be your reason...

When I'm cutting trees on an angle like that I use a bore cut and holding strap at the back. Cut your notch like normal, although it doesn't have to be as deep as usual. Then plunge cut into the centre of the tree, cut foward to form a hinge and back, leaving a strap of wood at the back. Remove the saw, get ready on your escape path, cut the holding wood from the back and get out of the way

As your hinge is formed before the tree starts to fall you dont have the situation where you are racing to get the cut exactly right before it starts to move.

Cheers

Ian

What he said...

 

[Husky137]

That will be your reason...

When I'm cutting trees on an angle like that I use a bore cut and holding strap at the back. Cut your notch like normal, although it doesn't have to be as deep as usual. Then plunge cut into the centre of the tree, cut foward to form a hinge and back, leaving a strap of wood at the back. Remove the saw, get ready on your escape path, cut the holding wood from the back and get out of the way

As your hinge is formed before the tree starts to fall you dont have the situation where you are racing to get the cut exactly right before it starts to move.

Cheers

Ian

I'll agree with all of that and just add that with a sharp chain, that slight lean on a 12" tree he should have been able to blast through the back cut without a barber chair. But when in doubt bore it out.

 

[cntrybo2]

if you are going to start using the bore cut, PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE on smaller, easy, hazzard free trees (trees that if they fall wrong, they wont hurt anything). i have seen some people that are not familiar with the bore cut have really uneven hinges, cut the back strap too thin and it pop under tree weight. just a word to the wise, if its a new cut for you, make sure you practice it before you use it in a risky situation.

 

[John Ellison]

I'll agree with all of that and just add that with a sharp chain, that slight lean on a 12" tree he should have been able to blast through the back cut without a barber chair. But when in doubt bore it out.

I think you are right Husky137, When in doubt bore it out.

If you have any doubts about how fast your saw will cut, how sharp your chain really is, or doubts about the notch,hinge, or how you think the tree is going to react, then the bore and release method is probably the best bet.
On some trees it is the best way no matter what.

countrybo2 also makes a good point, bore cuts can also get you into trouble if you are not familiar with them.

 

[smokechase II]

Possibilities

Suggest that the posts by Ianab, Husky137 and John Ellison are very appropriate.

Several items can be a factor in barber chairs:

Shallow and/or narrow face or no face at all,
Too deep a face on tree that is about ready to go,
Back cut not at correct height to face,
Not using either a “triangle” or the preferred plunge back-cut,
Face cut ‘matching up’ with a split in tree,
Driving Wedges too hard or unnecessary wedging,
Wind,
A second tree leaning into the one that ’chairs,
Additional weight added up in a leaning tree,
Pulling a tree with a rope or cable too hard,
Improper hinge wood width,
Failing to nip corners or bore out center of hinge,
Not placing chain(s) with binder(s) on truly severe leaners,
Defect in tree,
Dull chain or running out of gas in middle of back-cut.

Any chance you could get some photos?

 

[smokechase II]

more barber chair thoughts

I cannot find anyone who has seen or heard that a hollow tree, (where cut), has ever barber chaired. There is the possibility that a center face bore may be just as important a tactical cut as boring the back-cut to set up the hinge. There have been posters here on AS that bored the back and still got a barber chair. While rare, this is worth mentioning.

In fact, you don't even have to make just one cut on a tree to get a chair. Just ask John Ellison about Alaska.

Barber chairs occur most often in heavy leaning green trees. Really pay attention to those local guys that make a point about a particular species being a problem.

All the Best

 

[tawilson]

Is there a reason to stop with your borecut and finish from the backside? Any reason not to just keep on cutting through from the inside if you don't need to put in any wedges?

 

[Ianab]

Is there a reason to stop with your borecut and finish from the backside? Any reason not to just keep on cutting through from the inside if you don't need to put in any wedges?

Thats might be ok with small trees where you can just blast out through the back. But on bigger trees I like to leave a few inches of holding wood at the back, remove the saw, take a couple of steps back and cut the holding wood a few inches below the main cut. With the bigger trees chances are the holding wood will rip out with considerable force before you can cut right though it. Cutting well below your main cut reduces the chance of the sawing getting caught in the holding strap if it doesn't shear off cleanly. You dont want to be standing there fighting the tree for possesion of your saw as it goes over

The leaners I'm cutting are usually 30-60" monterey cypress, overgrown shelter trees, on local farms. When you release them they go with a real crack and start falling fast, you want to be taking large steps in the opposite direction by then

Cheers

Ian

 

[cntrybo2]

when i learned the plunge-cut technique, it was taught to me to not use the saw to cut the holding wood but to use my felling axe. this takes the chance of the saw getting hung up out of the equasion and its a heck of alot safer and easier running from a tree with an axe in your hand than a running saw. I like the idea and use it when i do perform such a cutting technique. Keep in mind, i was taught technical sawing in wildland fire situations not on tree jobs.

 

[smokechase II]

backstrap

The axe thing might have merit occasionally.
Axes are quiet and easier to discard. Some safety there also.
Then again you'll be hanging around the stump getting it cut longer....

One thought on however you complete a plunge cut is to not have your strap above a potential root pull.
Could come up and trip or smack a fella alongside the head and knock some sense into him.

 

[smokechase II]

video of barber chair prevention

On the West Coast, usually all the boring of the back cut is for barber chair prevention. Not much boring otherwise.

Here is a Youtube video of where a green tree is getting a lot of pressure from another tree. This cutter, who probably put tree one into tree two, uses a bore to be safe. Quick escape and you can feel that he is taking this seriously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsdm7Y4l5bs

 

[Fumbler]

when i learned the plunge-cut technique, it was taught to me to not use the saw to cut the holding wood but to use my felling axe. this takes the chance of the saw getting hung up out of the equasion and its a heck of alot safer and easier running from a tree with an axe in your hand than a running saw. I like the idea and use it when i do perform such a cutting technique. Keep in mind, i was taught technical sawing in wildland fire situations not on tree jobs.

I've had some prior chainsaw training, but I just finished S-212 (Wildland chainsaw use) and everything I've learned about plunge cutting has been consistent.

If you plunge cut then you need to keep some felling wedges with you.
After you make the plunge cut then lightly tap in a wedge on each side of the tree. Don't hammer it in because you might break the holding wood.
The wedges will keep your bar from being pinched when you cut the holding wood.
Also, the wedges are already set in case the tree doesn't want to fall in your intended direction.

 

[Ianab]

Here's one that should have been bored (in hindsight)
The guys seem to know what they are doing but cut the tree with a conventional notch and backcut. No one got hurt, but it's quite impressive :help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9eMk5kCgCI&NR

Ian

P.S. Read the comment, seems they had a rope set in the tree and maybe tensioned it up to much. (Another potential cause of barberchairing)

 

[tawilson]

In the first video, that guy barely touches the tree with the saw before it starts to go. Do you guys leave that little bit of holding wood, especially with another tree leaning up against it?