In the process of upgrading my grinder I'm looking at a lot of them and some have a feature for tilting the vise up to 10 deg, supposedly for doing chisel chains. Is this a worthwhile feature? My existing one seems to do a good job without it.
Bench grinder feature
- Thread starter Old2stroke
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Honda_man
ArboristSite Member
Can you share what grinder has that feature? Thanks!
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RED-85-Z51
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MinnesotaJon
ArboristSite Member
Which eBay clone do you have? Do you like it?
RED-85-Z51
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Basically this...
It works well. Great frame and motor, 2 years now regular use in My shop, easily 5 or 600 chains and no issues
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124218306190
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Honda_man
ArboristSite Member
Oh, I see what you mean. I have the Tecomec one (I think its in Carlton brand) and never use that feature. Maybe I should.
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MinnesotaJon
ArboristSite Member
That’s the one I was thinking it was thanks!
Square Ground
ArboristSite Lurker
Semi chisel chains can benefit from adding a 10 degree down angle like the chisel chains also. Not all chains respond, but some respond well. More and more chains are being produced with a steeper head angle also (50 instead of standard 60). If the manufacturers grinding instructions say 50-60 you can bet that it was ground at 50. Semi chisel chains cut well at 50.
Here's another one from our favorite Canadian candy store for adult males. Princess Auto, started in Winnipeg and spread eastward, has their own line of tools called Power Fist.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/120v-ac-bench-mount-chainsaw-sharpener/product/PA0008601577
https://www.princessauto.com/en/120v-ac-bench-mount-chainsaw-sharpener/product/PA0008601577
This feature doesn't appear to be there to add to, or change the head angle, the head angle can be set from 50 deg to 90 deg on the head adjustment. The feature tilts the vise at an angle that is 90 deg to vise rails, not in the same direction of the rails. In other words, it appears to tilt the chain sideways, not in the direction that would change the head angle.
stihl86
Addicted to ArboristSite
IMO the 10 degree's is entertaining to argue about, like 40-1 vs 50-1.
But in the real world, and depending on the accuracy of the grinder,
and the skills or the operator, it's probably meaningless. Much like the mix
debate. The depth gauge height is much more important. Again IMO.
The HOS Stihl grinder doesn't even offer the adjustment.
But in the real world, and depending on the accuracy of the grinder,
and the skills or the operator, it's probably meaningless. Much like the mix
debate. The depth gauge height is much more important. Again IMO.
The HOS Stihl grinder doesn't even offer the adjustment.
Square Ground
ArboristSite Lurker
Yes, the head angle adjustment adjusts the angle at which the wheel grinds the cutter. Standard adjustment is 60 but a lot of chains like the Oregon 91VXL are ground at 50. The down angle is adjusted by slanting the vise rails as you said. I have ground some semi chisel chains at 10, and saw minimal improvement, but others saw no improvement.
The 10° tilt is usually referred to as a 'down angle', since you drop the handle of the file down (even though you are filing UP !) to obtain it. It creates more of a compound bevel on the top plate cutting edge. It is illustrated as 'B' in the filing chart below.
Oregon used to recommend it only on some of their full-chisel chains, and later, on many of their semi-chisel chains too. Some Oregon engineers I have spoken with say that it absolutely makes a difference in cutting speed/performance under controlled testing. STIHL does not recommend it; they state that the file should be held at a 0° down angle, (or at 90° to the chain, depending on your perspective).
Taking this to grinders, several of the Oregon, Tecomec, and clone grinders (but not all) achieve this effect by tilting the vise (see photos). Some achieve this by sliding the vise forward or back (so that the chain it touched by a different part of the grinding wheel rim circumference).
My full sized grinders allow this feature, but I do not use it unless I am sharpening for someone who specifically asks for it.
- First, because it requires a few extra steps to tilt the vise, forward, then back again, for each loop.
- Second, because I don't personally notice a significant difference in cutting performance for the types of cutting that I do.
- Third, I am usually grinding chains that will be hand filed in the field. Many conventional file guides, as well as the STIHL/Pferd '2-In-1' guide, are only supposed to be used at a 0° down angle. So if I grind at a tilt, and they file at 90°, it will take them a lot of file strokes, and waste a lot of metal, just to get the files to 'nest' properly against the cutters again.
So, if you think that you want to be able to do this, even just to experiment or occasionally, choose a grinder that allows it. If not, lacking this feature should not be a deal breaker.
Philbert
Oregon used to recommend it only on some of their full-chisel chains, and later, on many of their semi-chisel chains too. Some Oregon engineers I have spoken with say that it absolutely makes a difference in cutting speed/performance under controlled testing. STIHL does not recommend it; they state that the file should be held at a 0° down angle, (or at 90° to the chain, depending on your perspective).
Taking this to grinders, several of the Oregon, Tecomec, and clone grinders (but not all) achieve this effect by tilting the vise (see photos). Some achieve this by sliding the vise forward or back (so that the chain it touched by a different part of the grinding wheel rim circumference).
My full sized grinders allow this feature, but I do not use it unless I am sharpening for someone who specifically asks for it.
- First, because it requires a few extra steps to tilt the vise, forward, then back again, for each loop.
- Second, because I don't personally notice a significant difference in cutting performance for the types of cutting that I do.
- Third, I am usually grinding chains that will be hand filed in the field. Many conventional file guides, as well as the STIHL/Pferd '2-In-1' guide, are only supposed to be used at a 0° down angle. So if I grind at a tilt, and they file at 90°, it will take them a lot of file strokes, and waste a lot of metal, just to get the files to 'nest' properly against the cutters again.
So, if you think that you want to be able to do this, even just to experiment or occasionally, choose a grinder that allows it. If not, lacking this feature should not be a deal breaker.
Philbert
Thank you, that clears things up nicely.
Canyon Angler
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good stuff Philbert, thanks.
When I first got my Oregon 511 I tried the 10 degree tilt, didn't seem to help cutting speed on bit so why bother. Steve
Will a “smaller” head angle cause a more pronounced hook in the cutter?
Take some 'scrap' chains and experiment. Make small changes in the grinder settings and see how each changes the cutter profile. Take a filed chain that you really like, mount it in the grinder (switch 'OFF') and try to 'copy' those settings, and compare those to the 'standard' settings.
Goes back to starting with what you want the cutters to look like. I check each tooth after I grind it. After you get comfortable with the grinder settings, and getting consistent results, you can even experiment with dressing / shaping the wheel edges to get a custom profile.
As with filing, you can also adjust the angles for different cutting situations: hardwood, softwood, frozen wood, speed, durability, etc.
Philbert
