rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
So the upper flip line and lower lanyard or is there a third line?
Best way to learn to climb and cut
- Thread starter rwagner24
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Upper flipline, lower climbline
rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
And are those two the same or can the bottom be smaller?
What climbline are you using?
woodchuck357
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think this dude is full of it
and is just trying to wind folks up!:msp_angry:
and is just trying to wind folks up!:msp_angry:
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
Some things never change. Threads like this would pop up on a fairly regular basis here on AS. The story has the same basic theme. In this case it is to be able to collect free firewood, but normally what prompted these types of threads was to go buy the gear to climb trees because of the cost to hire it done by a pro was just too much to pay. Some guys were able to pull it off, most couldn't and ended up hiring out the job anyway after they found themselves in over their heads.
I am not going to get into a big climbing discussion. I really can't add to the thread much other than to say to the Op is that you are doing this on the side and that you have a full time job. Have you considired what would happen if you did do this and got hurt and couldn't work your full time job?? Cutting firewwood is not even a pre- requiste for climbing and using a chainsaw in a tree. Is free firewood actual worth climbing a tree just because some idiot wants you to risk your neck by not having to pay a pro to cut down these so called close to something trees . In my book NO. I'd find wood elsewhere.
If your determined to do this and I am not trying to tell you shouldn't I would limit your tree climbing to small trees in the 16 to 18 inch class. That entry level kit is OK for single stem pines , spruce, cheeries, pin oaks in most cases because they are straight and tall but the kit is not really adequate for a tree that had no real central leader and is spread out and is wider than it is tall which is the case for most midwestern decurrent type trees. For these types of trees you are going to need a climbing line and KNOW HOW TO USE IT. If you can't figure out how to use a climb line in a tree your going to lost and that multiply your chances for an accident.
I haven't read through the entire thread but some of this advice and equipment is just overkill for your skill level. The supply houses are going to love you for spending money on gear that you don't need. The one poster that told you to go low and slow with a hand saw was right on and telling it like it is.
Good luck
I am not going to get into a big climbing discussion. I really can't add to the thread much other than to say to the Op is that you are doing this on the side and that you have a full time job. Have you considired what would happen if you did do this and got hurt and couldn't work your full time job?? Cutting firewwood is not even a pre- requiste for climbing and using a chainsaw in a tree. Is free firewood actual worth climbing a tree just because some idiot wants you to risk your neck by not having to pay a pro to cut down these so called close to something trees . In my book NO. I'd find wood elsewhere.
If your determined to do this and I am not trying to tell you shouldn't I would limit your tree climbing to small trees in the 16 to 18 inch class. That entry level kit is OK for single stem pines , spruce, cheeries, pin oaks in most cases because they are straight and tall but the kit is not really adequate for a tree that had no real central leader and is spread out and is wider than it is tall which is the case for most midwestern decurrent type trees. For these types of trees you are going to need a climbing line and KNOW HOW TO USE IT. If you can't figure out how to use a climb line in a tree your going to lost and that multiply your chances for an accident.
I haven't read through the entire thread but some of this advice and equipment is just overkill for your skill level. The supply houses are going to love you for spending money on gear that you don't need. The one poster that told you to go low and slow with a hand saw was right on and telling it like it is.
Good luck
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rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
5/8 x 12' steel core
rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
I don't have one yet, that's why I'm asking so I know what to order :bang:
Order The Tree Climbers Companion by Jeff Jepsen, read it, then read it again, then make your order.
rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
Ok I ordered the beginners climbing kit from wes spur and it comes with. It will be here Monday.
rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
Oh and sorry Ax-man I didn't see you post right away on my small iphone screen. I promise to start small and not try too much too soon.
timberland ts
ArboristSite Operative
Get the video series from balieys working climber by Beranek
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'll help you out a little. I went over to the climbing rope section at Wes Spur. It has been a long time since I have needed to order a new rope but I see they still have my two favorites . The Arbormaster by Samson which would be my first pick and the Hi-Viz from New England . Both ropes have stood the test of time because they are still being offered. Both ropes are 16 strand, a true 1/2 in diameter which is easier to grip and pull yourself up a tree, they also wear good for natural crotch climbing. Both ropes are user friendly for friction hitches like a Blakes or VT. Both ropes throw good ,they aren't limp nor are are they too stiff. All of these factors may or may not be covered in the tree climbers book. That book should also show you how to use a climb line as a second lanyard which is important so you know how to work your way around a crotch of a tree and your not tied into your tie in point so your not off safety if your spurring your way up a tree. It should also you how to use it to get out of a tree or off of a spar should an injury happen to you. Using one or two lanyards does not give this option like a climb line does to get yourself out of a tree or off of a spar. Choosing a climbing line is a matter of preference and others here will disagree with me but these two ropes have always been favorites of mine.
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even if all your doing is spur climbing straight up a tree you should still be using a life line. get 150' of 1/2" climbing line to start. I use 12 strand forestry pro. its a great rope. my advice is to leave the spikes off, get in the tree via throw line and move about. learn how to use your climbing line and your lanyard to hold you into a solid position. even when you extend both arms with a saw. i keep 2 pouches on my saddle for my lanyards. i have 2 12' 1/2" lanyards on me at all times. i may only use 1 but if i feel i need more stability, i'll tie in another. if i need more, i will use a second climbing line. do what you gotta do to be safe. example: i have my main line supporting me vertical, 1 lanyard holding me to the tree and one holding me laterally. this way no matter how i lean or reach, i am locked in. you don't want to be making cheesy cuts cause your not setup right. on the main stem cutting as you go down, you keep your flipline level and your life line is chocked on the tree below it. this way if your spikes slip out or you gotta bail quick, its right there. i always check my connections before i trust it. if i am repositioning my main line, i will tighten it up and give slack on my flipline. this way if you messed up, your flipline will still be there for you. the number 1 reason for fatal accidents involving ropes is a failed tie in. if it takes you 8 hours to limb a tree, so be it. you need to be aware of how things react. double check everything. all the time. i made a shallow face cut today on a 8" limb and it barber chaired. it was my fault. limbs are loaded and you just cant predict how much tension is on the limb. it had a healed wound that was undetectable right where my back cut was. with a proper notch, it would of just had a weak hinge. point is, i coulda got hurt. being a low limb, i took it for granted. good luck!
Bermie
Addicted to ArboristSite
You've been given a lot of good advice here, take it.
When you've got your kit, read Climber's Companion five times, have figured out how to go up and down without ever being unsecured...come down and start again.
Then get a good idea of how wood reacts when it is under different loads, tension, compression, side loading. Then learn what cuts and what sequence of cuts to make to remove a loaded piece of timber safely. Do this with a handsaw FIRST. You make one booboo with a chainsaw and it could well be your LAST.
Learn what defects in timber mean for your climb and cut plan...oh, you have to learn to recognize defects first...
Whenever you think you are ready to cut something...STOP...think, 'What will happen if this goes wrong?'
Where will the piece of wood go, where will your saw go, where will YOU go and will any of the other things hit you on the way past/down?
It may mean you rethink your strategy, take a few more seconds or even minutes to attain a better position, but when the inevitable F*&%up happens, you will survive, intact, or only with minor injuries.
I ALWAYS take a moment to make sure every part of my body AND my climb line and lanyard is OUT of the way of follow through, kickback and the piece of wood falling. IN the tree follow through is as dangerous as kickback.
And yeah, until you know when it is Ok to use a chainsaw onehanded, DON'T!
Start SMALL, start LOW, and start with a handsaw.
Did I mention to read Climber's Companion five times?...don't leave out the introduction either.
When you've got your kit, read Climber's Companion five times, have figured out how to go up and down without ever being unsecured...come down and start again.
Then get a good idea of how wood reacts when it is under different loads, tension, compression, side loading. Then learn what cuts and what sequence of cuts to make to remove a loaded piece of timber safely. Do this with a handsaw FIRST. You make one booboo with a chainsaw and it could well be your LAST.
Learn what defects in timber mean for your climb and cut plan...oh, you have to learn to recognize defects first...
Whenever you think you are ready to cut something...STOP...think, 'What will happen if this goes wrong?'
Where will the piece of wood go, where will your saw go, where will YOU go and will any of the other things hit you on the way past/down?
It may mean you rethink your strategy, take a few more seconds or even minutes to attain a better position, but when the inevitable F*&%up happens, you will survive, intact, or only with minor injuries.
I ALWAYS take a moment to make sure every part of my body AND my climb line and lanyard is OUT of the way of follow through, kickback and the piece of wood falling. IN the tree follow through is as dangerous as kickback.
And yeah, until you know when it is Ok to use a chainsaw onehanded, DON'T!
Start SMALL, start LOW, and start with a handsaw.
Did I mention to read Climber's Companion five times?...don't leave out the introduction either.
For me its been a natural progression. I grew up climbing trees as a kid, I started putting up swings, removing branches that were in the way if said swing. Just spending lots of time in trees for fun, then as a teenager I took up rock climbing, learned to be comfortable on the end of a rope. Then I wanted to learn to do removals, I started out with a hand saw doing some deadwooding of the trees in my own yard. Just taking every opportunity to be in a tree working. I did a lot if climbing and learning before I ever took a chainsaw into a tree with me. I worked with no spurs for a while too, that helped me learn to position when i couldn't just gaff in. When I first did, I started small and have just worked my way up, I'll always have a long way to go, but starting out small and working you're way up seems to be a prudent way to do it.
rwagner24
ArboristSite Lurker
Thank you guys for all the advice and info. I will read that book before trying anything.
husqvarna335xpt
ArboristSite Lurker
Gerald Beranek
I'm in the same boat as you are im drawn to the tree's and are detirmened to become an arborist, i would be a groundie but most companies here i would not wanna learn from.. DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR GET ATREE STORY.....WORKING CLIMBING SERIES.... get all 3 its a bit pricey but well worth the money... Mr Beranek's videos are unbelievably filled with detail and i mean to the T... from ropes to dblrt to srt knots poles saws cuts in the tree the list is endless and you cant put a price on his knowledge all put on film plus he has some great books... if you youtube atreestory he has a video on dbl rope ropewalking system. its the system i know use incredible..... just thought id chime in with a lil info new to the site....
I'm in the same boat as you are im drawn to the tree's and are detirmened to become an arborist, i would be a groundie but most companies here i would not wanna learn from.. DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR GET ATREE STORY.....WORKING CLIMBING SERIES.... get all 3 its a bit pricey but well worth the money... Mr Beranek's videos are unbelievably filled with detail and i mean to the T... from ropes to dblrt to srt knots poles saws cuts in the tree the list is endless and you cant put a price on his knowledge all put on film plus he has some great books... if you youtube atreestory he has a video on dbl rope ropewalking system. its the system i know use incredible..... just thought id chime in with a lil info new to the site....
Goose IBEW
ArboristSite Operative
Rwagner, I was in your boat not too long ago. I started on spikes using a lanyard as a flip line, no climbing line, its a miracle I made the progression without getting hurt. One thing I did have in my favor was OSHA 30 training and competant person training for suspended scaffolding. This at least taught me how to inspect my equipment and the importance of 100% tie in.
Keep the chainsaws and the handsaws away for a while. Learn how to climb using the double rope technique, how to use a throwline, get comfortable in the tree without the worries of cutting anything. I know from expeierence that most guys will want that saw before they are really competant using their climb line. Get in the tree with your climb line and a lanyard, get comfortable putting yourself anywhere and everywhere in a tree.
Read all of the books, watch all of the videos you can. Learn the Blake's hitch, you should be able to set it blindfolded. Take pictures of your climbing system and post them to verify its ok. Get comfortable 2 feet off the ground. I rather see the question "I was 4' off the ground and was wondering about......" than hear about you getting hurt because you didn't ask anything at all.
I have some time under my belt, still consider myself a novice. I hope to take a course soon, may even look into the one in Ohio now that i heard about it. You can learn more in one day from a pro than you can teach yourself in 6 months.
Please keep us posted on your every move, tell us what you have read, post pictures of your set up. You will get your balls broken, just have thick skin and realize what guys are saying. NOBODY wants to see you injured and the guys here know more so than you how easy an injury can come about.
Keep the chainsaws and the handsaws away for a while. Learn how to climb using the double rope technique, how to use a throwline, get comfortable in the tree without the worries of cutting anything. I know from expeierence that most guys will want that saw before they are really competant using their climb line. Get in the tree with your climb line and a lanyard, get comfortable putting yourself anywhere and everywhere in a tree.
Read all of the books, watch all of the videos you can. Learn the Blake's hitch, you should be able to set it blindfolded. Take pictures of your climbing system and post them to verify its ok. Get comfortable 2 feet off the ground. I rather see the question "I was 4' off the ground and was wondering about......" than hear about you getting hurt because you didn't ask anything at all.
I have some time under my belt, still consider myself a novice. I hope to take a course soon, may even look into the one in Ohio now that i heard about it. You can learn more in one day from a pro than you can teach yourself in 6 months.
Please keep us posted on your every move, tell us what you have read, post pictures of your set up. You will get your balls broken, just have thick skin and realize what guys are saying. NOBODY wants to see you injured and the guys here know more so than you how easy an injury can come about.
