black walnut veneer - what's the value of my logs

[tomtrees58]

Man, this does not make much sense....Lay off the alcohol when you're typing......

that's a good one having black walnut logs and you think you have a 10.000 log wood is down unless its a deep woods tree no gun shots nails etc and over 3' 24 " is way to small

 

[treeslayer]

What grade did he say the logs were? More than likely they graded a 1 and not veneer which is a pretty decent price difference.

Exactly, its not a veneer log until its down and graded.

walnuts grow nasty, and veneer is a fine grade requirement, but he obviously wouldn't know.....:bang:

you don't cut veneer sheets with a band saw lil boy.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I have worked with a couple buyers in the state and they all have told me each defect they are looking at. As said above, it does not take much to downgrade from a veneer. I have seen standing graded at veneer get downgraded after the cut; seams, shakes, staining are just a few of the reasons.

 

[YoungTreeGuy]

The two veneer logs were marker as 3 and others where 1's. Piont is he paid me $300 to knock one down in that wasn't nearly as nice as this log and paid the home owner for it. Best he could say was $350? What kinda logic is that.

I got some one else looking at them tommrow that useing it in his home.

 

[teascouts]

Veneer is processed in two ways; plane slice and rotary cut. There are three types of veneer cuts; rotary, plane slice, and rift. Rift cuts and plane slice cuts are produced on the same machine, rift cuts basically are just quartersawn first. Rotary cuts.... well , you figure it out. Unless you know a manufacturer, I suggest you take what you can get. We had a buyer for a while who exported v. quality logs to Germany for the Cuckoo clock industry and paid pretty good, but we had to haul them to the port in Toledo. I've had people who wanted me to pay them to remove their tree, lol, it would have to pretty special to justify that. In short, do some research, make some calls, or take what you can get.

 

[YoungTreeGuy]

Veneer is processed in two ways; plane slice and rotary cut. There are three types of veneer cuts; rotary, plane slice, and rift. Rift cuts and plane slice cuts are produced on the same machine, rift cuts basically are just quartersawn first. Rotary cuts.... well , you figure it out. Unless you know a manufacturer, I suggest you take what you can get. We had a buyer for a while who exported v. quality logs to Germany for the Cuckoo clock industry and paid pretty good, but we had to haul them to the port in Toledo. I've had people who wanted me to pay them to remove their tree, lol, it would have to pretty special to justify that. In short, do some research, make some calls, or take what you can get.

I think he forgot he paid me to knock trees down for him. He's not the only one buying walnut here that's why I gotta laugh at the low ball offer. If nothing else Ill call the mill in albany and take them there with the 16 ft dump tailer we got. If it's worth the time. If not Ill call the logger and say come get'em... have them chunker up into firewood when he gets there. " thanks for wasting my time now I've wasted some of yours."

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've had people who wanted me to pay them to remove their tree, lol, it would have to pretty special to justify that. In short, do some research, make some calls, or take what you can get.

Same here, you get people every once and a while who heard of someone 3-4 times removed who got paid $3500 to have a tree removed 20 years ago. I talked to one guy who said it was him in the +19 years I have been doing tree work in the Metro Milwaukee area. He told how they took all the major limbs and dug the stump out for gun-stocks. It was in an easy access so they could flop it, and it had a very long stem.

I interrogated him on the subject.

Talking to others it might have been the peak of the market when the Euro buyers were paying top dollar for the species. I know a few old-timers who made a few truck payments on U. americana in the 70's. These days we have to haul a load of logs near 200 miles to make a sale. The local mills will not even look at a wood-lot under 8 acres. That might have changed since the glut of spec . development has decimated the land clearing industry. Which, of course, has shifted all those companies into the residential market...

But i digress

 

[lego1970]

I think he forgot he paid me to knock trees down for him. He's not the only one buying walnut here that's why I gotta laugh at the low ball offer. If nothing else Ill call the mill in albany and take them there with the 16 ft dump tailer we got. If it's worth the time. If not Ill call the logger and say come get'em... have them chunker up into firewood when he gets there. " thanks for wasting my time now I've wasted some of yours."

I hear what your saying and that would pretty amusing, however $300 is better then nothing. Also you have to remember he's gonna sell it for a profit to the mill, then more then likely the mill with sell it to European or Asian buyers at a profit. I don't doubt that your log is veneer, and I'm sure if you see your log at the mill next week it will have a veneer tag on one of the ends, but for now I wouldn't piss off the buyer/logger

Couple things to keep in mind in case you don't already know. Don't notch and drop the trunk....it's an obvious sign to the log buyer you don't know the game. Dig around it at low as you can then plunge cut and sweep out the middle towards the side you want to drop, then cut down on the root flare/back straps that are holding the tree in place. That will maximize your BF. Also in the summer keep the logs out of direct sun light and heat if you can , otherwise they can start to splinter and blue too much. If your gonna be holding on to the logs for a long period go to a local craft store and buy chunks of wax, melt it in an old pan and then paint the ends of the logs to prevent too much moisture from coming out, also they sell little plastic spikes that you can hammer into the ends to prevent splitting, but I doubt that would be nessesary if you keep them out of direct sunlight and the ends waxed. I don't know what the moisture content is suppose to be so you might want to check in on that before waxing the ends.

That's all I can add, good luck.

 

[056kid]

If the guy was a logger, why did he pay 300 bones to have a tree cut? Cant the logger do it? Further more, why wouldn't he keep THE "veneer" log? I can tell you that there never was and never will be a veneer that came from someones yard, not as far as the mills are concerned.
Find the rest of the load then talk to the mill, otherwise, make some gun stocks or something. . .

 

[056kid]

I hear what your saying and that would pretty amusing, however $300 is better then nothing. Also you have to remember he's gonna sell it for a profit to the mill, then more then likely the mill with sell it to European or Asian buyers at a profit. I don't doubt that your log is veneer, and I'm sure if you see your log at the mill next week it will have a veneer tag on one of the ends, but for now I wouldn't piss off the buyer/logger

Couple things to keep in mind in case you don't already know. Don't notch and drop the trunk....it's an obvious sign to the log buyer you don't know the game. Dig around it at low as you can then plunge cut and sweep out the middle towards the side you want to drop, then cut down on the root flare/back straps that are holding the tree in place. That will maximize your BF. Also in the summer keep the logs out of direct sun light and heat if you can , otherwise they can start to splinter and blue too much. If your gonna be holding on to the logs for a long period go to a local craft store and buy chunks of wax, melt it in an old pan and then paint the ends of the logs to prevent too much moisture from coming out, also they sell little plastic spikes that you can hammer into the ends to prevent splitting, but I doubt that would be nessesary if you keep them out of direct sunlight and the ends waxed. I don't know what the moisture content is suppose to be so you might want to check in on that before waxing the ends.

That's all I can add, good luck.

What do you mean, "don't notch & drop the trunk" Maybe I missed something all those months falling veneer logs,facing a tree below ground level is dumb, along with that screw ball GOL face you describe. . .

logging is not a game. . . . . . . . .

 

[Gypo Logger]

The last walnut I sold was the ugliest stuff I ever saw. It was felled and cut by a land clearer into indiscriminate randon lengths and sat in a pile for four years. The sapwood was turning to punk. I thought it was just glorified firewood, but sold it for 1.50/BF to a Tiawanese woman log buyer.
Aisian markets usually have only 2 grades, while the U.S. has 6 or 8 The US likes to pick out the best logs and the Asians gets what's left and are good on the scale and fast with the $. There was a time when they bought without rolling the log, so most loggers would put the defect down. Lol These were known as 'bump down logs'.
John

 

[YoungTreeGuy]

If the guy was a logger, why did he pay 300 bones to have a tree cut? Cant the logger do it? Further more, why wouldn't he keep THE "veneer" log? I can tell you that there never was and never will be a veneer that came from someones yard, not as far as the mills are concerned.
Find the rest of the load then talk to the mill, otherwise, make some gun stocks or something. . .

He's 89 years old. And he did keep the log for that tree. I cut some down for a friend that were better looking then the one I cut for him.

The other local logger said the log was dieased on one side and was a $400 saw log. He never rolled it. Even though he offered more... I saw how much his eyes lit up and how much the other guy low balled. Guess I'll have a small bidding war between the two of themto get a fair price.

 

[lego1970]

What do you mean, "don't notch & drop the trunk" Maybe I missed something all those months falling veneer logs,facing a tree below ground level is dumb, along with that screw ball GOL face you describe. . .

logging is not a game. . . . . . . . .

I don't know what GOL means?

"Don't notch and drop it", means exactly that. Dig out the dirt, especially inbetween the root flares....go to the side where the tree will fall and plunge cut as low as you can into the center....gut it out without cutting the root flares.....then cut the felling side root flares down to meet the horizontal cut.....then go to the sides and back side and cut those root flares down to meet the horizontal cut.

Screwball? I thought the same thing the first time I saw a tree felled that way, but that's how it's done on Walnut logs around here. If the mill see's the top side of a face cut they will know your an amateur.

Logging is not a game? Yes and no. Staying safe is no game and that applies to all forms of tree work but the rest of logging is....especially the selling part.

 

[056kid]

GOL is "Game Of Logging" and is is dumbassery.

Digging the roots of a tree is also dumbassery, mills do not really care about the ####ed up ass grain that is in the stump of a log from what I gathered. Then again, I fell timber in hill country where the low side of the stump might be 4 feet in the air & the high side is level with the earth. . .

 

[lego1970]

GOL is "Game Of Logging" and is is dumbassery.

Digging the roots of a tree is also dumbassery, mills do not really care about the ####ed up ass grain that is in the stump of a log from what I gathered. Then again, I fell timber in hill country where the low side of the stump might be 4 feet in the air & the high side is level with the earth. . .

I didn't say roots....I said root flare. Stump.....if it's not hollow then you're throwing away bf. Hill country....some of the logs come from the Ozarks. I've been ALL OVER Virginia and the grade on the ozark hills are just the same as Virginia....matter of fact so are some of the waddi's and ravines in Kansas and they fell trees on hills pretty much the same way.

I've said all I can say as far as what price to expect, how the Walnut mills like it done, and how loggers have been doing it here for decades. You folks can take it for what it's worth.....good luck.

 

[pdqdl]

Lego: got a question for you.

I have been hearing about the techniques you describe for quite a few years now, particularly from the walnut-tree thief I employed a few years back. He claimed to have made big money harvesting walnut trees in the distant past. He claimed to have dug out the root flare for maximum value.

My dad tried to make money with walnut log harvesting when I was just a kid, so I have been following the walnut veneer business almost all my life. My father, of course, had no idea what he was doing, and that venture flopped, prostrate on the ground without profits after the first truckload. More of that "big money in walnut logs" myth.

I see many semi-truck loads of walnut logs passing down the highway on the way to the St.Joseph veneer plant. Sometimes I take the time to look at the load very closely. I have never seen any of the logs taken down to the root flare in the manner you have described, and I have looked particularly at the log ends, how they were cut, what size they were, and how much dark wood was present.

Do you have any comments on this observation?

 

[lego1970]

Lego: got a question for you.

I have been hearing about the techniques you describe for quite a few years now, particularly from the walnut-tree thief I employed a few years back. He claimed to have made big money harvesting walnut trees in the distant past. He claimed to have dug out the root flare for maximum value.

My dad tried to make money with walnut log harvesting when I was just a kid, so I have been following the walnut veneer business almost all my life. My father, of course, had no idea what he was doing, and that venture flopped, prostrate on the ground without profits after the first truckload. More of that "bid money in walnut logs" myth.

I see many semi-truck loads of walnut logs passing down the highway on the way to the St.Joseph veneer plant. Sometimes I take the time to look at the load very closely. I have never seen any of the logs taken down to the root flare in the manner you have described, and I have looked particularly at the log ends, how they were cut, what size they were, and how much dark wood was present.

Do you have any comments on this observation?

The root flares are trimmed off after it's felled, giving you that "two turns" in pencil sharpner look at the butt. Matter of fact if they don't trim at least a little bit of the flare, then it won't load good on the truck unless you overhang the root flares off the front or back of the trailer. Size of the tree doesn't really matter.

Your talking about American Walnut Company out of St. Joseph. Hell, call them up and ask for John, Allen, Frank, or Glenn and tell them you got a few Walnut tree you're gonna cut down and that you want to know how to plunge cut it. They will all tell you the same thing I described. Matter of fact the CEO John W. will tell you that's how he wants his logs to look. Likewise, I'm sure Silvers mill from Cameron, Mo. ,Pacific Walnut from Fayette, Mo, Missouri Walnut from Neosho, Mo, and Midwest Walnut from Council Bluff, Ia will all pretty much say the same thing. I can give you the loggers names if you want?

Again, take it for what it's worth. I'm done with this thread.

 

[pdqdl]

I wasn't doubting you, I was asking for your opinions on my observations. Please draw no offense, none was offered. I think you misunderstood me. I was looking for trimmed root flares, and have never found any on the trucks I had the opportunity to look at. I'm not claiming that I saw them all, either.

I gave up on selling walnut logs many years ago. Nobody wants to buy city trees from an unknown seller. They just won't pay what it's worth, particularly the guys up in St. Joe.

I might be wrong, but I just don't buy the argument that the metal detectors can't find the metal in the trees. I believe that it is just a buyers market, and if you are the little guy with an occasional walnut tree (like the average tree service)...don't bother.

 

[lego1970]

I wasn't doubting you, I was asking for your opinions on my observations. Please draw no offense, none was offered. I think you misunderstood me. I was looking for trimmed root flares, and have never found any on the trucks I had the opportunity to look at. I'm not claiming that I saw them all, either.

I gave up on selling walnut logs many years ago. Nobody wants to buy city trees from an unknown seller. They just won't pay what it's worth, particularly the guys up in St. Joe.

I might be wrong, but I just don't buy the argument that the metal detectors can't find the metal in the trees. I believe that it is just a buyers market, and if you are the little guy with an occasional walnut tree (like the average tree service)...don't bother.

Ok, sorry for being defensive.

I've seen foreign buyers bring their metal dectectors to mills so I agree with you...a good quality metal detector should have no problem picking up metal in the wood.

For future reference in case you come across another good log.

You might already know these guys but if not try Danny Stephens on rt O about 5 miles south of Freeman. Met him once, seems like a good guy that has his stuff together. Of course he's in it for the money as well but being close to Peculiar he might be worth the drive.

Also South Side Lumber out of Butler, Mo. Don't have a contact name, but they seem pretty fair.

 

[YoungTreeGuy]

Ok, sorry for being defensive.

I've seen foreign buyers bring their metal dectectors to mills so I agree with you...a good quality metal detector should have no problem picking up metal in the wood.

For future reference in case you come across another good log.

You might already know these guys but if not try Danny Stephens on rt O about 5 miles south of Freeman. Met him once, seems like a good guy that has his stuff together. Of course he's in it for the money as well but being close to Peculiar he might be worth the drive.

Also South Side Lumber out of Butler, Mo. Don't have a contact name, but they seem pretty fair.

I know what a plunge cut is and I think I understand how to do but it was on town along a rail track about 20 feet from it. We dug as low as we could and drop cut( drop cut was in the root flare). Got a vidoe so I can see this cut in action? Mite do side work with a guy on his land. He wanted to know should we find a market for his logs (oak locust black walnut and ashe) or go to the mill? I've got a 16' dump trailor and he was one slightly smaller. The 16fter has 7ft sides so it can hold a lot. if I should go to mark it with them, any suggestions where to start looking for a buyer?