brakes? we don't need brakes...

[Patrick62]

Ok, gentlemen.
Put on your thinking caps here. This winter, I will simply have to do something with the brakes of the old wood hauler.

The more seasoned mechanics here will know what I am struggling with. 1967 Dodge, with a hydrovac booster.
It "leaks" not brake fluid, but the diaphram is screwed up. If I "hit" it really hard, it will assist the brakes. if I ease into it. there is NO assist at all.
Thankfully it works as well as it does. So, I am driving it very cautiously at the moment. It has to run, it is the only truck that can deliver wood at the moment!

Ok, the origional hydrovac system is a single bore master cylinder under the truck, fed from a cylinder on the firewall. They are available, but very expensive. And rare.

What is the point of keeping it original anyway? I just want it to stop... The current thought process is to change out the whole enchilada with a dual diaphram booster on the firewall, and use a dual master cylinder, front and rear brakes. based upon what I am experiencing... I think it is workable. At the moment it stops about the same as say, a 3/4 ton truck without the power brakes working.
It will stop, but takes a LEG to do it. So the fluid volume and pressure is probably about the same as a 1 ton Ford... etc.

Brakes are necessary. When loaded up this thing is probably around 15,000 lbs. Won't win any races. Top speed is about 45, maybe 50 down hill

However, that is 2 full cords of firewood tossed in loose, and it is a dumpy, which is about the only really nice thing about the truck.
That, and it doesn't break down very often.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

 

[JRM]

Have you called Napa? I just looked them up, they have them listed at $240 online but shows out of stock. They may be able to order one though.

 

[cookies]

Do it right since its a safety first repair, you do not want that thing being unable to stop easily. Likely the booster bladder has a hole in it from fluid leaking past the master cylinder seals.
Replace the booster, flush the brake fluid, replace the wheel cylinders and be prepared to replace lines and possibly shoes if fluid/oil contamination is found.
I would inquire with wildwood about a different system that would interchange with the possibility of front and rear disks and inquire with cardone about a rebuild service and also ask around locally about rebuild services offered locally and mail in.
Expect to spend a grand on parts, anything under that is a extra win. Remember once your done doing it right it should last many years without issue. Triple check your pedal to master cylinder linkage once done.

 

[Patrick62]

Well, the interesting part about this is...
it is obsolete, Many parts for this truck are non-existent.

I have told people there are two things on a vehicle that are necessary.
Brakes and steering. Everything else is optional

a few years ago the drums were off, the shoes looked ok. Drums also ok.
Wheel cylinders are working (no doubt obsolete, along with the shoes (no doubt asbestos).

On those axles, there is simply no feasible way to upgrade to a disc brake.

I have a 1971 out here that I am keeping for parts... Last time I moved that one, the brakes were working. I might swap the hydrovac from it.

This winter I would consider it a "upgrade" to get away from the single master cylinder.

I know the "do it right". Remember, I already said that brakes and steering is mandatory.
Technically, with virtually no power assist, this thing is dangerous to drive...

However, last week a small suv decided to pull out in front of me. I braked hard enough that the load shifted in the bed, so... I can still "stop it".

 

[sean donato]

You should be able to use about any booster and master cylinder, so long as they meet the specific needs of your current set up. I play with 70's ford's a bit and normally update the non power brakes to more modern standards. The master cylinder bore will be important, 1 1/4" at minimum. Get the booster that mates to it and figure out how to mount it and get linkage from the pedal to the booster hooked up and functioning. Hydro boost is about the best imo for heavier trucks, but I've successfully transplanted later 90's f350 vacuum booster assemblies and master cylinders on to late 60'-early 70's ford's with a little fabrication. Parts are available everywhere.

 

[cookies]

A clutch rebuiler can re shoe your old brake shoes, there should be rebuild kits with spring and cups to rebuild the wheel cylinders.
I would start by visiting local shops including tractor trailer since they often replace the material also classic restoration businesses local to you, they will know who rebuilds clutches sadly they are all dying trades. Asbestos brakes and clutches are great, people are either too stupid or lazy to hit the brakes with soapy water and rinse. Once wet its really poses no threat unless your looking to taste it. The problem is when its used in insulation in the cab and under carpet resulting in frequent exposure.

 

[JRM]

Another possibility

https://www.applehydraulicsonline.com/collections/brake-booster-rebuilt

 

[kevin j]

I like the concept of converting to split system. Even if you rebuilt the booster, it would develop more pressure then, and put more stress on the rest of it all the lines and hoses. I think split brake systems are probably the biggest safety advantage on cars other than seatbelts. I remember the days it was all or nothing

 

[quahog]

a few years ago the drums were off, the shoes looked ok. Drums also ok.
Wheel cylinders are working (no doubt obsolete, along with the shoes (no doubt asbestos).

On those axles, there is simply no feasible way to upgrade to a disc brake.

Albeit annoying to work on, drums work fine. No need to attempt the disk brake conversion.

Only assuming it is a 67 D200 or similar I found brake shoes at a variety of places. My #1 go to for properly fitting parts is Napa or Rock Auto.

Seems like a good opportunity to make the brakes new again-replace the shoes, cylinders, springs, drums if needed. If you're going to be keeping this for awhile, I would also replace all the rubber brake lines, inspect the metal tubes as well. Napa should be able to bend/flare new stuff for you.

 

[Patrick62]

its a D500
light duty 2 ton truck
i think 16 inch drums
shoes could be relined, but the semi metallic linings would be harder on the drums.
i know the rears have upper and lower cylinders...

yep, single cylinder means one line or hose breaks, we lose everything.
agreed, dual ststem is 100% safer than single!!

 

[quahog]

its a D500
light duty 2 ton truck

My bad, for some reason i keyed in on the 3/4 in your original post. Poor reading comp on my part. D500 makes it harder. The closest Rock Auto gets is a 61 and doesn't list much in the way of shoes.

If you can find the specs of the shoes, you could probably find a matching set, but like you said relining is an option.

I like your dual master idea.

 

[j-jock]

Ok, gentlemen.
Put on your thinking caps here. This winter, I will simply have to do something with the brakes of the old wood hauler.
View attachment 1022339
The more seasoned mechanics here will know what I am struggling with. 1967 Dodge, with a hydrovac booster.
It "leaks" not brake fluid, but the diaphram is screwed up. If I "hit" it really hard, it will assist the brakes. if I ease into it. there is NO assist at all.
Thankfully it works as well as it does. So, I am driving it very cautiously at the moment. It has to run, it is the only truck that can deliver wood at the moment!

Ok, the origional hydrovac system is a single bore master cylinder under the truck, fed from a cylinder on the firewall. They are available, but very expensive. And rare.

What is the point of keeping it original anyway? I just want it to stop... The current thought process is to change out the whole enchilada with a dual diaphram booster on the firewall, and use a dual master cylinder, front and rear brakes. based upon what I am experiencing... I think it is workable. At the moment it stops about the same as say, a 3/4 ton truck without the power brakes working.
It will stop, but takes a LEG to do it. So the fluid volume and pressure is probably about the same as a 1 ton Ford... etc.

Brakes are necessary. When loaded up this thing is probably around 15,000 lbs. Won't win any races. Top speed is about 45, maybe 50 down hill

However, that is 2 full cords of firewood tossed in loose, and it is a dumpy, which is about the only really nice thing about the truck.
That, and it doesn't break down very often.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

The three main manufacturers, all used this system in their trucks.
I have a Ford F600 with the same system, and searched every possible site on the internet for a new or replacement unit for my HydroVac booster. I don't drive the truck on the highway, so I finally removed the booster and hooked my system together as a manual only system. Not what I wanted, but what I had to do.
After more looking, I found that there is a guy in Oregon, that specializes in obsolete power brake boosters. I didn't directly get a quote, but a friend told me that he would do the rebuild for $400.00.
My booster is the Midland Ross, which is identified by the band in the middle. They used another booster that I think was made by Bendix.
My master cylinder is on the firewall, and I thought of converted to a firewall mounted dual booster. I have done this before, and it isn't that much of a problem. It is a workable solution that I have used before, and just takes the time to set the unit up properly,

This is the information I collected from my searches:
I just did a google search, and maybe this will be the place to start:
https://www.google.com/search?channel=fs&client=ubuntu&q=Dodge+D500+brake+booster
This is my search from 2 years ago, and I am including it because of the contact information:
The numbers below are Ford numbers and are just for reference, and won't mean anything to you, but maybe it will be helpful for the vendors, could possibly rebuild your booster or find a replacement.

C9TZ-2005-E (replaced C8TZ-2005-C) .. Brake Booster / 13.00" O/A Diameter / Obsolete / Midland-Ross part numbers: C-4091E or C-4093D.

No Ford Dealer or obsolete parts vendor has C9TZ-2005-E.

The following have C8TZ-2005-C =


GREEN SALES CO. in Cincinnati OH has two = 800-543-4959.

MILLER OBSOLETE PARTS in Binghamton NY has one = 800-546-7278.

BOB ALLEN FORD in Overland Park KS has one = 800-676-0675.
-------------------------------------------------------------
C9TZ-2140-J (replaced C8TZ-2140-H) .. Master Cylinder / Obsolete

ED STIVERS FORD in Waukee IA has one C9TZ-2140-J.

No other Ford Dealer or obsolete parts vendor has any.

No one has C8TZ-2140-H.

ALL fit: 1968/72 F500/750 with single hydraulic brakes and 1969/72 F500/600 with split hydraulic brakes.

Good luck,

 

[j-jock]

Here is a youtube link that will be helpful. In the beginning of the video, there is a picture, a Midland Hydrovac unit, and his replacement.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Ok, gentlemen.
Put on your thinking caps here. This winter, I will simply have to do something with the brakes of the old wood hauler.
View attachment 1022339
The more seasoned mechanics here will know what I am struggling with. 1967 Dodge, with a hydrovac booster.
It "leaks" not brake fluid, but the diaphram is screwed up. If I "hit" it really hard, it will assist the brakes. if I ease into it. there is NO assist at all.
Thankfully it works as well as it does. So, I am driving it very cautiously at the moment. It has to run, it is the only truck that can deliver wood at the moment!

Ok, the origional hydrovac system is a single bore master cylinder under the truck, fed from a cylinder on the firewall. They are available, but very expensive. And rare.

What is the point of keeping it original anyway? I just want it to stop... The current thought process is to change out the whole enchilada with a dual diaphram booster on the firewall, and use a dual master cylinder, front and rear brakes. based upon what I am experiencing... I think it is workable. At the moment it stops about the same as say, a 3/4 ton truck without the power brakes working.
It will stop, but takes a LEG to do it. So the fluid volume and pressure is probably about the same as a 1 ton Ford... etc.

Brakes are necessary. When loaded up this thing is probably around 15,000 lbs. Won't win any races. Top speed is about 45, maybe 50 down hill

However, that is 2 full cords of firewood tossed in loose, and it is a dumpy, which is about the only really nice thing about the truck.
That, and it doesn't break down very often.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Ok, gentlemen.
Put on your thinking caps here. This winter, I will simply have to do something with the brakes of the old wood hauler.
View attachment 1022339
The more seasoned mechanics here will know what I am struggling with. 1967 Dodge, with a hydrovac booster.
It "leaks" not brake fluid, but the diaphram is screwed up. If I "hit" it really hard, it will assist the brakes. if I ease into it. there is NO assist at all.
Thankfully it works as well as it does. So, I am driving it very cautiously at the moment. It has to run, it is the only truck that can deliver wood at the moment!

Ok, the origional hydrovac system is a single bore master cylinder under the truck, fed from a cylinder on the firewall. They are available, but very expensive. And rare.

What is the point of keeping it original anyway? I just want it to stop... The current thought process is to change out the whole enchilada with a dual diaphram booster on the firewall, and use a dual master cylinder, front and rear brakes. based upon what I am experiencing... I think it is workable. At the moment it stops about the same as say, a 3/4 ton truck without the power brakes working.
It will stop, but takes a LEG to do it. So the fluid volume and pressure is probably about the same as a 1 ton Ford... etc.

Brakes are necessary. When loaded up this thing is probably around 15,000 lbs. Won't win any races. Top speed is about 45, maybe 50 down hill

However, that is 2 full cords of firewood tossed in loose, and it is a dumpy, which is about the only really nice thing about the truck.
That, and it doesn't break down very often.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

Some of the information responding to this question is wrong. There are many ways to make your truck safe. If you had to spend a $1000 to stop you have to do it. Overlook the problem and you could spend the rest of your life in jail. If you kill a few people because you could not slow down prosecution might be a little harsh when they discover you had been driving a truck with no brakes for two plus years.

I have a 67 Ford F650 COE that is near impossible to stop with out the booster. I can think of a dozen brake systems that will work just fine on your truck. You have a master cylinder near your brake pedal that has one line that goes to the booster pump. After the booster you have a four way manifold that feeds each wheel. So pretty much any booster cylinder will be OK as long as it is a singular style. As was mentioned you could convert your system to a latter year system that pumps to the front and back. Do some shopping as the rebuild kits are about $200 and up. $400 should get you a rebuilt unit with warranty. I have been able to cruise through the wrecking yards to find all the parts I have needed for some time. The main cup is what wears out and most of the parts consist of O Rings. I found a similar unit on a transit bus that used the same size cup. It has been working for some time. I have added a larger air tank to give me a little more wiggle room. When my vacuum gets below 10 lbs an alarm goes off so you had better pull over. Thanks

 

[ken morgan]

one word.. wilwood brake systems brand new with plenty of options. fix it right the first time, your life and the life of every "21 y/o mother with two children in the car" are not worth it.

 

[Patrick62]

Thank you sirs, for all the replies, and opinions!
I ain't scared, I am driving this thing like a grandma. Knowing fully well that it's like a freight train.
I did read somewhere that someone (other than here) did bypass their booster...
Not a sensible thing to do, but if it works for him... so be it.
I did get past the "scary" delivery to Deer Valley ranch a month ago. I told my customer that I am actually a bit apprehensive about doing this, and told him that the brakes are acting up in the truck. Problem is getting up the hill. Turn around, come down the road (steep). Stop. Reverse into his driveway, and then dump the load. THe "stop" on the way down was the sketchy part. It worked (or I could have been sailing DOWN that road at high speed). I won't deliver there until next year, and will have it fixed by then.

THe parking brake... is on the back of the transmission, and will hold it on level ground...

I think that the firewall mounted system is the way to go, with a dual (drum/drum) master cylinder.
There is plenty of room, and I will probably get something with a dual diaphram.

While I have the truck in, and working on it I will go after the frozen brake adjuster I found. The front brakes are manual only on adjustment, the rears have a star wheel.

Gentlemen, one thing to consider here. at the moment firewood is my primary income.
We are not making lots of $$ doing this, so the budget is tight. Spending thousands on this would not be sensible. I will fix it, but not empty the bank account doing it.
At the moment, this is the only truck running, except for a motorcycle it's the "daily driver".
Getting the 3/4 ton pickup running again is mandatory (dodge 440, lower end rebuild, lost oil pressure)

Lots of people would just go get a newer truck. $30,000 isn't in the budget either.
And a new truck would lilely be less reliable than this one, at 55 years old.

Get the brakes working nice, and I will consider swapping the 5 speed transmission and engine from the 1971 into it. Maybe I could get 50 mph... with a V8 in it.

 

[farmwood]

Just finished bleeding our system on an International 1600, what a pain! Due to the pains and parts I think my next option for when the booster fails is to get a firewall booster from a newer truck when this one goes. I haven’t ready more than a couple of the replies….yet, but when looking for international parts, it may just be better doing a firewall booster.

 

[9050lx]

Had a co-worker with a Microbus. No brakes.He would pull it off the road and do doughnuts til the light turned green!

 

[mountainguyed67]

This is from when I did some work on my truck several years ago, you can see the booster hanging there. There’s a local place that’ll send them out to be rebuilt. My truck is a one ton, so probably not big enough for you. I’d give it to you if you wanted it, I went another way.