Bucking with aftermarket/big dog spikes?

[mattellis2]

I made a pretty substantial upgrade to the firewood saw department a couple of months back. Been cutting with an MS270 for 7-8 years, and finally ponied up for a 441. What a beast! I am amazed at the amount of power this saw has and the difference between 0.325 RS chain and 3/8" chain.

OK, to my question. I purchased some of the big dog felling/bucking spikes from Bailey's for the saw. In fact, I never ran it with the factory spike on it. Anyway, I have been struggling with the big spikes. When I hook a log with the lowest spike, it will slam the chain into the log hard enough to bog the saw. I had a really hard time flush cutting a large pin oak stump today because of this. I also tend to "bounce" when bucking...the saw bites, I can feel/hear it start to bog, so I let up. It revs up again, then bites hard again and starts to stall.

What am I doing wrong here?

Today's load:

The offending spikes:

 

[sawfun9]

Nice setup you have there, especially the Fiscars.

 

[mdavlee]

They make a 4 point set that is much more user friendly. Those work alright on big butt swelled oaks and stuff like that. Stihl also has some oem that are smaller 5 point. You can cut the bottom one off and re drill the roller catcher hole and use those.

 

[596 Jason]

I had the same problem with those dogs on my 460. With the stock dogs I kept my chain depth gages at .030 and it worked well. When I switched to those dogs my saw would bog the second the chain touched the wood. They made me look like an idiot. They work OK with depth gages set to .015-.020, but I rather use the stock ones with a chain set to .030.

 

[jbighump]

wow those dawgs are huge!! i want a set for my 460 just not those...go with the oem double dawgs from stihl from the wrap version of that saw

 

[Beer Gut]

I have the same dogs on my 460 and 660 I love em you really can get some leverage with those..

460
View attachment 213853

660
View attachment 213854

044 with 660 dogs work well with 20" bar
View attachment 213855

 

[mattellis2]

beergut,

do you have any of the issues that i noted when running your 460? i am only running a 20" bar, and it sure didn't like those dogs. i think i am going to go out to the shop and cut the lowest spike off. they're not doing me any good the way they are.

-matt

 

[procarbine2k1]

I dont like big spikes on a work saw for anything. Some of my collector saws have them, and they look nice (and correct to the saw), but to actually work with them.... not so much.
They are nice for thick bark and all for the bite, but I dont run into the thick bark much here. Normally if I am cutting, it is a 12-20" black locust with little to no bark left on it. With ash, some of the biggin's will have 1-1.5" bark, but nothing that a stock style spike cant grab.

 

[Beer Gut]

beergut,

do you have any of the issues that i noted when running your 460? i am only running a 20" bar, and it sure didn't like those dogs. i think i am going to go out to the shop and cut the lowest spike off. they're not doing me any good the way they are.

-matt

When I'm down to the last cut in a log so the saw can pull the wood around it will jump a bit, I just back off with the dogs at that point keep them off the wood. I use a 25" on that saw usually but have used a 20" and all the way to a 36". I like those dogs for felling and bucking they bite in awesome as you experienced, better for bigger wood though. The little stock ones barely do anything in my opinion so I never had to get used to them. I have used saws with the bigger Stihl ones like stated in post above they bite hard as well. My 2 cents play with them for awhile as long as its not making you unsafe I bet you will get the hang of them.

 

[gink595]

I had the same problems with the set that was on my 066, I got rid of them and got the stock ones back and I'm much happier. My 880 has a large set of factory dogs and they kind of have the same traits of the those dogs. I've been half tempted to round the lower spike so it can't dig it like it does.

 

[procarbine2k1]

One small correction... I have a larger set on my XPW (OEM PNW set), and like them. They suit me fine, but I believe is due to the progression of one tine to the next (if that makes sense). I dont believe the problem with the larger spikes, is the length of the spike- but more about the "progression", or overall radius from the tip of each spike to the next. Hopefully someone a little better, or I will be forced to get out the Crown Royal, and sketch up some designs in Microsoft Paint.

 

[HorseFaller]

Got the same ones on my 440. Actually used it today, heavy barked fir and birch and alder. They do take some getting used to. Try to let the saw pull itself thru the wood jousting resting them against the bark for a bit. Every once in awhile I still dawg in and lift and it seems having the longer length dogs gives more leverage and will stop the chain dead. Just keep using them.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=48.916067,-122.120457

 

[nixon]

To be totally honest, Your saw has ghetto written all over it . 20" bar ,huge dogs bolted on with hardware that has the thread hanging out over one half inch . Go with the stock dogs ,and be happy with the way it cuts over your other saw . JMHO .

 

[Mr. Bow Saw]

I made a pretty substantial upgrade to the firewood saw department a couple of months back. Been cutting with an MS270 for 7-8 years, and finally ponied up for a 441. What a beast! I am amazed at the amount of power this saw has and the difference between 0.325 RS chain and 3/8" chain.

OK, to my question. I purchased some of the big dog felling/bucking spikes from Bailey's for the saw. In fact, I never ran it with the factory spike on it. Anyway, I have been struggling with the big spikes. When I hook a log with the lowest spike, it will slam the chain into the log hard enough to bog the saw. I had a really hard time flush cutting a large pin oak stump today because of this. I also tend to "bounce" when bucking...the saw bites, I can feel/hear it start to bog, so I let up. It revs up again, then bites hard again and starts to stall.

What am I doing wrong here?

Today's load:



The offending spikes:

Those kind of spikes are made wrong.
The bottom point of the spikes is way to long and at the wrong angle.
I had the same problem, I had a new Homelite 750 with real long points at
the bottom of the spikes. It would stop the chain if I was not real care full
when I started my cut, The spikes would just want to stick in the bark.
I would have to pull the saw back away from the log to move it down in cut.

So I cut a inch or more off the bottom point and rounded up on
bench grinder. They worked like they should after that.

 

[blsnelling]

I would get rid of those huge dawgs in a hurry. The only thing dawgs like that are good for is work in equally huge bark. They have no business on a bucking saw.

 

[Jacob J.]

So I cut a inch or more off the bottom point and rounded up on
bench grinder. They worked like they should after that.

When Mr. Bow Saw says you have to run with the big dogs, he actually means you have to run with the big dawgs.

 

[stihlrookie]

Just a thought

Why not put the OE spikes back on?

Sorry to say, there is something not right with the way that setup looks, its plain hideous IMO. Nice saw but those huge dawgs need to go.

 

[openloop]

I bought a set of the PNW dogs for my 372xp.... Im glad they were on sale cause I took them off for the same reasons as the OP.

FWIW I think the problem is that the lowest dog (also first to contact wood) puts the pivot point too far below the centerline of the bar/chain. When the dogs are jammed into the wood it causes the saw to rotate forward enough to jam the chain into the wood too far.

The big dogs are cool looking but dont function better than the smaller ones and eat up valuable bar length.

 

[Jacob J.]

The big dogs are cool looking but dont function better than the smaller ones and eat up valuable bar length.

It's funny how I've been telling people that in my local area for years, but they aren't buying it.

 

[064AV]

Fun read I've grown up with the big dogs, so I guess I just got used to them.
My grandmother, who doesn't live near logging, asked me why they are called dogs..."Is it because of the bark?" I couldn't stop laughing but had to admit that I didn't know. Where does that term originate?