butt to stump

[Gord]

4 large fir removals yesterday, mostly cut and toss, rigged out lower limbs and tops on two of them and then fell the 30-40' spars. Felling the spars onto a slight uphill curve, parallel (but just above) slight incline down to clients's porch, about 12' away from stumps. Fell first three perfect, stayed put after they dropped. Last one went down, bounced, rolled down incline and struck the log I had put in front of the 4x4" porch support to protect it. Pushed the barrier log enough to knock the support off it's base. Not much damage really, but not at all my style. I had put the barrier log in place thinking it was uncessary, but I take precautions that I often feel are unecessary, rarely find out that they were in fact needed and rarer still discover that my precautions were inadequate.

But anyways I don't need a critique of what I did wrong, just have an idea that I'm wondering if anyone has tried. That is, tying off the butt to the stump pre-felling, likely with a heavy duty sling, webbing or otherwise. I know it still leaves the possiblilty of the top pivoting after the fall but in my situation it would have saved the day to ensure that at least the butt didn't roll. Also could tie off butt to an anchor other than the spar's stump of course and eliminate some slop.

On a similar note here is a trick I have used to works like a charm. I was taking down a number of small tulipfera's in a housing complex the other day. Trees had been planted just behind a 2' high portugese laurel hedge. Plenty of room to fall them, just the pesky hedge in the way. So I got out my tenex dead eye, made my undercut about 4' off the ground, girth hitch below undercut to halfhitch and clove above undercut. Solid guarantee that the butt will stay above the hedge after the fall. For less slop and roll/slip possibility you can also put a vertical V in the upper face of the undercut so it will cradle the bridge rope and keep it from rolling around to the top side.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

This isn't real hilly country here, but yes tying off the butt to the stump or more often to other trees is commonly done here.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've tied the butt off on several occasions. Even done the 4 foot thing before.

The biggest problem I've had doing that (on larger butts) is untieing the rope afterwards with such a bind applied to it. In that case I usually just take wraps around whatever I'm tying off to.

A lot of times 'barrier logs' can bust up whatever your protecting just by being pushed into it by the falling log. Many times I've been told to 'just put a log in front of it', but if you don't secure THAT log you could run into trouble
I usually secure it a couple well-placed pie cuts.

 

[John Ellison]

I am interested to hear how others do this. I use 3/8" wire rope,rigged to anchor out front and or to the side.Eye and shackle on the tree and wraps and cable clamp on the anchor if it is a tree. If anchoring it in the direction of fall, shallow notch all around (just above where face will be made) choke in notch and render out slack.If anyones wondering, I dont use wire rope to pull trees.
John

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It seems that loggers use chains and wire rope, while arborists use rope. Each product has an application that it is best suited.

 

[NeTree]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
This isn't real hilly country here, but yes tying off the butt to the stump or more often to other trees is commonly done here.

Haven't needed to do it too often myself, but I have done it and have seen it done, with excellent results.

So no Gord, you're idea's not far fetched. It's spot-on.

 

[Mahk]

Originally posted by Gord
I know it still leaves the possiblilty of the top pivoting after the fall

Gord;

Rather than removing all of the limbs flush to the trunk, leave some thick stubs, 2 - 3 feet long, near the top of the spar, either opposite from or parallel to the ground. These will help keep the top from rolling down the hill. Exact size and placement may vary, depending on the site conditions and species of tree.

Mahk

 

[Gord]

Good tip there Mahk, thanks for your feedback fellas.

 

[John Ellison]

Question

How much stretch is in 50ft of 1/2 Tree Master. I cant find it in any of my info.
Thanks
John

 

[Gord]

samson arborist rope catalog

tree master has about 3% stretch at SWL. so approx. 18" of stretch in 50' with a 700lb load on. wear/history/cleanliness of course are factors.

 

[John Ellison]

Gord,
I couldnt make the link work , willtry a search. How much is in a low stretch? Can I get some recom. on a good book that deals at length in this? Shock loading ropes What is the s in SWL , ++working load?
Thanks again.
John

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

What I've done on a number of occasions is use ony a marl on the stump part of the butt tie, I figure even if it runs some it will still do what it is supoesed to and will be easy to get of if the log is near right on top of it.

If you have a few inches of stump from the fell it won't com off.

 

[Gord]

John you need Acrobat Reader for the catalog. You can download it from ww.download.com

 

[John Ellison]

On rope

Can someone tell me , If the breaking strength is the same, is a no stretch synthetic line able to withstand more of a shock loading than wire rope?

 

[Dobber]

I have tried tieing off the butt aswell as the larger notch allowing the tree come over further and not break off. I have thaught of leaving long stubs to catch and hold on impact, but thaught they might jump the log into the air on firm ground. Is there any other methods out there I havent heard of.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If I have a tree I can rig from near by I'll set a line and rig it out.

I've done it with a porty, but the GRCS makes it much easier to do

If you have a second rig poing you can set a drift line to transfer the load to and move it out to a mor convienient DZ. This is where The Winch realy comes in handy.

 

[geofore]

Did the wide notch work? Don't tell us you are going to use something and not report on how it worked. Did it jump off the stump or hold? Inquiring minds want to know?

 

[rbtree]

Very good thread and discussion, guys!!

John E, re the high modulus spectra type lines with near zero stretch, one should avoid shock loading them at all costs. They actually stretch less at break than wire rope, thus are desirable as there is no dangerous whip back in the event of breakage.

In fact, with all our arbo lines being static with limited stretch, shock loading must be very carefully monitored and avoided. Nylon should be used if load running to avoid shock is not an option. But usually with tree work, there is a target down below to avoid, so stretchy line is undesirable. That means preloading the lines to limit initial drop is usually the best option.

I often chain or line rig a butt log, to minimize any possible movement--say to protect a house to the side. I once dropped a 74 foot fir log into a 76 foot space...cheap fence was the target to miss, but still... an open face cut also helps the action to be smooth, and the butt to drop cleanly off the face.