Canadian Hemlock or White Pine?

[suaf]

I have a stand of mature Bur Oaks on my property but the understory is nothing but buckthorn. This stand is on the north side of my home along a road and I want to remove the buckthorn and put in a privacy fence of evergreens. The problem is that not a whole lot of sun filters through the oak canopy. So far it seems like hemlock and white pine are the best options. I want to put several in. It seems that White pine probably grow a bit faster and I have a nursery that will sell them to me wholesale (about $70 for a 4ft tree). The hemlock I would have to buy at retail - unless anyone knows a wholesale nursey in NE Illinios that will sell to a regular consumer. Any suggestions which one to go with? Does one to better in shade than the other? Any other suggestions? Thanks

 

[Adkpk]

Mix it up.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The hemlock will tolerate more shade, but because of their aledged shade tolerence, I see so many planted in impossible amounts of shade, and then they just kind of sit there and get leggy and eventually die.
I would definitely mix it up. You don't want a mono-culture of plants that could be entirely wiped out by one pathogen at some point down the road.
It will also look more natural if you choose plants of different size, or spread the plantings over a number of years. Avoid straight lines, or ridged zig-zag patterns. These plantings always look good if they look like a naturally occurring forest, not a hedge row. Hence mixing up the plant material, size and species.

 

[suaf]

Thanks guys - you are absolutely right. In fact, part of the reason I moved from my other house was because all of the trees planted in the parkway were green ash - and we all know what is going to happen to ash trees across the coutry over the next several years (especially the midwest).

I guess I was just concerned about how much shade white pined or hemlocks can handle. Are there any other conifers that do well in shade too to mix it up?

Thanks

 

[treeseer]

Are there any other conifers that do well in shade too to mix it up?

Thanks

If you limit yourself to conifers, you miss out on a lot of better-adapted broadleafed evergreens.

O and if it's screen you want, and the buckthorn is providing screen, why not just whack them back now and then? You can do a lot of harm to your big trees by cutting roots with a shovel when you plant.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Good point about cutting the buckthorne back. You could take out the ones that have berries, they're the ones that reproduce. Then once you pull one out, replace it with a native tree.
Root damage to the Oaks is another good reason to do this project over a number of years. If you clear cut the buckthorne, you will drastically change the soil ecosystem all at once and cause stress to the Oaks.

If the buckthorne is thriving, you must have pretty much light, the Hemlocks should do well.
Yews are another one that do well in shade. They may not seem like the most natural looking tree, but if you resist the temptation to shear them into funny shapes, they can be quite beautiful!

 

[suaf]

Thanks - all good stuff.

I definitely plan on removing the buckthorn over a number of years. To clarify, I don't want to remove the root system of the buckthorn - partly because they are probably intertwined with the oaks. I plan to take a chainsaw to them and then use brush b gone or round up on the stumps so they don't resprout.

Treeser - you mentioned other broadleaf evergreens. I don't need conifers - just evergrees as I want a natural privacy fence from the road. What species are you thinking. I'm in northen IL so needs to tolerate ice and bone chilling winters (plus shade of oaks). Thanks!

Mike - I've never been a fan of yews - but that's because I hate the shapes they are hacked in to. And I know they will tolerate just about any soil and moisture conditions. I had some under an eave in my other house that never received any water - yet somehow were completely fine - ground water I guess.

 

[PA Plumber]

Regarding Hemlock.

I don't know about Canadian Hemlock, but our Eastern Hemlock is getting hammered by the Wooley Adeldgid. I have cut down hundreds of trees in the last few months and they have all had it except one. We have a lot of trees already dead and broken.

If the Canadian Hemlock is just as susceptible (sp?), it would stink to loose all those plantings 10-15 years from now.

 

[elmnut]

Do you have alot of deer? They love hemlocks.

 

[PA Plumber]

Do you have alot of deer? They love hemlocks.

The numbers are starting to increase. Before we got the property, it used to get beat to death with hunters. I'm trying to get that controlled, put in food plots, and have set aside a few acres as a sanctuary. No one is allowed to go into the sanctuary acres unless tracking a wounded animal. This includes myself. The "wildlife only" area is choked with multifloral rose, has some light timber, grassy, swampy, and has lots of Hawthorne throught it. The deer and turkey seem to hang out there a lot. Have seen some woodcock along the edges.

 

[Thillmaine]

Canadian Hemlock

Canadian hemlock and eastern hemlock are the same thing. Tsuga Canadensis.
Yes they get adelgid, and yes they can be treated with biologicals very easily. Conserve I beliueve is what our company uses. Large rhodes, boxwoods, and cap yew, also depending on hardiness, mountain laurel, hollies, and leucothoe.

 

[Thillmaine]

Canadian Hemlock

Canadian hemlock and eastern hemlock are the same thing. Tsuga Canadensis.
Yes they get adelgid, and yes they can be treated with biologicals very easily. Conserve I beliueve is what our company uses. Large rhodes, boxwoods, and cap yew, also depending on hardiness, mountain laurel, hollies, and leucothoe.

 

[PA Plumber]

Canadian hemlock and eastern hemlock are the same thing. Tsuga Canadensis.
Yes they get adelgid, and yes they can be treated with biologicals very easily. Conserve I beliueve is what our company uses. Large rhodes, boxwoods, and cap yew, also depending on hardiness, mountain laurel, hollies, and leucothoe.

What are Biologicals? We have at least 80 acres of Hemlock. I looked into having it treated a year ago, and the cost was extreme. From the limited reading I have done, I understand treatment needs to be applied at least every 3 years, if not sooner.

The asthetic beauty and wildlife value of the Hemlocks is very high. The timber value is terribly poor. Since I don't have the resources to save the trees, I'm in the process of logging off the larger ones and leaving the younger stock to fair on its own.

Hopefully I'll get some hardwood regeneration by getting the woods thinned out. Lots of Oak, Hickory, Poplar, and Maple on the ridges above the stands of Hemlock.

 

[Newt*]

What are Biologicals?

Biologicals are natural enemies of an insect pest. They could be another insect, a bacterium, a virus, etc. that is specific to that particular pest.
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/fhp/hwa/biological_control.shtm

Newt