Cement filled tree......

[l2edneck]

This is a tree that i have been looking at for the past 15 years.Im not sure when it was done but im sure it has prolonged the life of the tree.(i do not know what kinda damage this possibly has done if any?)It looks as if the tree had a large cavity and rather than remove it the filled it with blocks.I understand this used to be common practice but is shyed away from now.Just from the pics here what do you think should be done?There is a few cables in it but IMO i think it is time to do something about the safety issue.At what point do you think its unsafe if any?What would you do besides removing.It really is a beautiful tree.Just trying to get some knowledge and opinions here.Im not contracted to do any work to it.Thankyou all.

Pics are 600x450 so i think maybe ok fer dial-uppers

editriginal links didnt work try these....
View attachment 37773
View attachment 37774

 

[Ed*L]

Thats gonna be hard on a chain. :hmm3grin2orange:

Many years ago my neighboor concrete filled a Hard Maple that had a hollow trunk. I'm guessing it was done in the early 60's. He carried buckets of concrete up a ladder & poured them in. The tree is still there & appears healthy. I would guess thre tree has a 38" diameter trunk.
There was also one on our property that was filled the same way. It was removed back in the early 70's.
I guess at one time it was a common practice.

Ed

 

[PTS]

I have run into my share of them. There isn't no other way of putting it. They suck. Once I hit it the price just doubled and that is just for starters. What pisses me off is when the homeowner knows about it and doesn't tell you. Best way I have found to deal with it is de-limb everything you can. Then I hook a chain around the top of the log if it is tall and put on a really old wore out chain with a new edge and start cutting till I hit it and just keep working all the way around till there is nothing left but cement. Then use the loader to bust off the concrete.

I have also found that if you cut in the root flare the cement for whatever reason has a tendency of not getting down that far. Maybe it was coincidence.

My worst one was concrete at 30 feet in the air and all the way to the bottom. If the end loader wasn't right there I would probably been forced to leave it.

You have to admire the ambition of carrying cement 30 feet up a latter to fill a 8 to 10 inch diameter hole 30 feet long. Guess he was an over achiever.

 

[Dadatwins]

Cement was a very common practice years ago, have also seen some cavity filled with a combo of cement and steel rebar which really makes for a miserable day. Tree looks like it has been maintained and the cement cavity looks like the tree is rolling back over it. Cement really does nothing for support it is just there for asthetics. In that situation it was probably put in to stop the cavity from becoming a trash recepticle. Good idea, bad choice of materials. As for what to do with the tree, check tension and strentgh of the cables, those are some heavy limbs. Possible to reduce some of the weight from the ends. At the base and cavity level check for further decay and any additional hollow. The wound wood that the tree is rolling around the cement is very dense and strong.

 

[Jumper]

I saw cement and rebar as well in a really nasty Manitoba Maple removal some years ago in Ottawa.

 

[Ekka]

Back then expanding foam in a can wasn't available.

Also there may have been a logic that said the strength lost by decayed heartwood was replaced with concrete.

It offers nothing but a PITA for the arbo today.

Regarding the rest of the tree, cant tell.

Trees can live and look healthy on only an inch or two of sapwood. How far up that hollow goes, if it's hollow thru the branches etc needs to be tested and assessed for wall thickness.

Look at the underneath of the limbs where they're joing the trunk, look for fibre buckling and on top of the limbs growth triations indicate a rapid amount of tension wood being added ... if however the bark is lifting, cracking etc it is trouble. Mark it with paint etc and check it, if the lifting bark is advancing and the fibrebuckling increasing you have a scenario where the limb is falling off.

Cabling may have saved it some but look at and beyond the cable attachments for same.

Look for swelling where the tree is compensating for thin walls and beefing up. Fibre buckling in the area is also indication of subsidence.

Go to this thread, download and print out in colour the VTA chart, laminate it and keep it with you. I know it that well it's forever embedded in my head now.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=20996&highlight=vta

 

[davidbradley360]

This is a tree that i have been looking at for the past 15 years.Im not sure when it was done but im sure it has prolonged the life of the tree.(i do not know what kinda damage this possibly has done if any?)It looks as if the tree had a large cavity and rather than remove it the filled it with blocks.I understand this used to be common practice but is shyed away from now.Just from the pics here what do you think should be done?There is a few cables in it but IMO i think it is time to do something about the safety issue.At what point do you think its unsafe if any?What would you do besides removing.It really is a beautiful tree.Just trying to get some knowledge and opinions here.Im not contracted to do any work to it.Thankyou all.

Pics are 600x450 so i think maybe ok fer dial-uppers

editriginal links didnt work try these....
View attachment 37773
View attachment 37774

old thread but worth reviving was this old tree filled with blocks, ever removed, or is it still there and growing ?

I see a lot of threads and posts regarding old trees filled with concrete that were removed, and what a PITA it was to remove the concrete, but almost none of them state whether the tree was actually dead when they removed the tree and concrete, or if it was still alive

in the case of the pictures of the tree in the OP here, why remove it, it's flourishing just fine with the block in it, and obviously very strong

I'm starting to think the major case against concrete filling isn't the tree's health or longevity, it's the removal service people not wanting to deal with it later.

 

[treemandan]

old thread but worth reviving was this old tree filled with blocks, ever removed, or is it still there and growing ?

I see a lot of threads and posts regarding old trees filled with concrete that were removed, and what a PITA it was to remove the concrete, but almost none of them state whether the tree was actually dead when they removed the tree and concrete, or if it was still alive

in the case of the pictures of the tree in the OP here, why remove it, it's flourishing just fine with the block in it, and obviously very strong

I'm starting to think the major case against concrete filling isn't the tree's health or longevity, it's the removal service people not wanting to deal with it later.

I kinda do agree with your last thoughts.

 

[treemandan]

This is a tree that i have been looking at for the past 15 years.Im not sure when it was done but im sure it has prolonged the life of the tree.(i do not know what kinda damage this possibly has done if any?)It looks as if the tree had a large cavity and rather than remove it the filled it with blocks.I understand this used to be common practice but is shyed away from now.Just from the pics here what do you think should be done?There is a few cables in it but IMO i think it is time to do something about the safety issue.At what point do you think its unsafe if any?What would you do besides removing.It really is a beautiful tree.Just trying to get some knowledge and opinions here.Im not contracted to do any work to it.Thankyou all.

Pics are 600x450 so i think maybe ok fer dial-uppers

editriginal links didnt work try these....
View attachment 37773
View attachment 37774

That tree is something else.

 

[old grizzly]

concrete filled trees.

This is a tree that i have been looking at for the past 15 years.Im not sure when it was done but im sure it has prolonged the life of the tree.(i do not know what kinda damage this possibly has done if any?)It looks as if the tree had a large cavity and rather than remove it the filled it with blocks.I understand this used to be common practice but is shyed away from now.Just from the pics here what do you think should be done?There is a few cables in it but IMO i think it is time to do something about the safety issue.At what point do you think its unsafe if any?What would you do besides removing.It really is a beautiful tree.Just trying to get some knowledge and opinions here.Im not contracted to do any work to it.Thankyou all.

Pics are 600x450 so i think maybe ok fer dial-uppers

editriginal links didnt work try these....Not far from where i live is a old methodist chapel and across the road from the chapel is an old oak tree,it is thought that John Wesley used to preach under the tree so it must be a great age,anyway this tree is hollow and was filled with concrete years and years ago to preserve it and it is still looking good,incidentally there is a house next to the tree which is called Stone tree cottage.

 

[davidbradley360]

I noticed that most of the threads talking about removing trees with concrete in them, almost none of them state whether the tree is alive or not. There is almost zero factual information on each individual filled tree, how long it lasted, did the concrete kill it, etc. There is one famous tree that lasted an additional 90 years before being removed, simply because it was filled with concrete. That can be found on a google search.

If concrete next to wood is so bad, then how come all our homes and skyscrapers are built that way.

There seems to be a lack of common sense and logic in the assumption concrete in a tree is bad, and you know the old saying, sometimes those old timers knew a lot more than we give them credit for. The overbuilt stuff and it was strong, mainly because it was cheaper to overbuild back then. Now it's penny pinching city in this crappy economy.

If the tree is in a safe place with no targets, filling it and seeing what happens, is certainly better than cutting it down, especially if it's a large, majestic tree, that is appealing to the eye.

It would cost a lot of money today, to fill a tree with concrete or block, more than the cost to remove it. That's the only valid reason I can see, other than potential targets if the top falls. It's not a valid technical, biological, or structural reason why not to fill it.

What it does to someone's chainsaw 50 years later because they didn't know, is not a valid reason not to do it. We live in the here and now. It costs a lot of money to tear a house down too, that doesn't mean you stop using concrete and block to build the house, because it's harder to tear it out later.

bad logic, bad science, IMHO.

 

[tramp bushler]

I was talking to the Line Superintendant in the Copper Valley last week and he told me about how he worked as a beginning arborist in Colorado filling Silver Maples with concrete and block. Might have been Boulder? I'll ask him. Next chance I get. I had never heard of it before.

 

[Treetom]

concrete sucks...

That's all I can say. Yesterday I wasted three 36" chains cuttin' through this bad boy at 18 ft high. Totally disguised vein of concrete running inside the truck. View attachment 246486View attachment 246487

 

[sgreanbeans]

I noticed that most of the threads talking about removing trees with concrete in them, almost none of them state whether the tree is alive or not. There is almost zero factual information on each individual filled tree, how long it lasted, did the concrete kill it, etc. There is one famous tree that lasted an additional 90 years before being removed, simply because it was filled with concrete. That can be found on a google search.

If concrete next to wood is so bad, then how come all our homes and skyscrapers are built that way.

There seems to be a lack of common sense and logic in the assumption concrete in a tree is bad, and you know the old saying, sometimes those old timers knew a lot more than we give them credit for. The overbuilt stuff and it was strong, mainly because it was cheaper to overbuild back then. Now it's penny pinching city in this crappy economy.

If the tree is in a safe place with no targets, filling it and seeing what happens, is certainly better than cutting it down, especially if it's a large, majestic tree, that is appealing to the eye.

It would cost a lot of money today, to fill a tree with concrete or block, more than the cost to remove it. That's the only valid reason I can see, other than potential targets if the top falls. It's not a valid technical, biological, or structural reason why not to fill it.

What it does to someone's chainsaw 50 years later because they didn't know, is not a valid reason not to do it. We live in the here and now. It costs a lot of money to tear a house down too, that doesn't mean you stop using concrete and block to build the house, because it's harder to tear it out later.

bad logic, bad science, IMHO.

So what ur sayin is, concrete is OK? Really!

 

[keh10]

That's all I can say. Yesterday I wasted three 36" chains cuttin' through this bad boy at 18 ft high. Totally disguised vein of concrete running inside the truck. View attachment 246486View attachment 246487

Man, that sucks. Why would anyone put concrete in a solid tree like that??? :bang:

 

[2treeornot2tree]

That's all I can say. Yesterday I wasted three 36" chains cuttin' through this bad boy at 18 ft high. Totally disguised vein of concrete running inside the truck. View attachment 246486View attachment 246487

Why did you ruin to more chains after you hit it with the first one?

 

[Treetom]

I couldn't see what I was hitting so I kept trying. Luckily I was able to drop the trunk in the yard, then I just picked it up with the crane. When the trunk hit the gound, the top piece with the concrete I' hit broke off, the concrete was all that was holding. That's the piece to the right on the truck. View attachment 246690View attachment 246691View attachment 246692View attachment 246693

 

[Grace Tree]

View attachment 246695

 

[Treetom]

View attachment 246696Great pic! That was the MO for dealing with cavities in trees back in the day. The oak I removed in the pics is in a historic part of town where many trees I've encountered over the years contained concrete. As was mentioned, some trees even contain blocks and mortar in the trunk. Here's a terrace tree at the same site, must have forgot to fill it up. Old growth oak meets new growth maple.

 

[Treepedo]

http://www.arboristsite.com/search.php?searchid=1236957&pp=&page=3

The most interesting thing about concrete, is it acts as a fulcrum and
caused more stress to the leads point of attachment.

The thread above comes with many interesting comments.

The tree I did is doing well and survived a fairly serious microburst last year.
:msp_smile: