Chain grinding Stihl vs ?

[SawTroll]

one of our tree feller customers wont have his chains sharpened by machine. he says it overheats the chain and makes it useless. is he right or wrong?

That sure happens, but it isn't a general rule - it depends on the operator of the grinder......

Thicker chrome probably is what has made the Stihl chain hold their edge a bit longer than the others - but the Oregon "X" chains may change the picture a bit......opcorn:

 

[Austin1]

OK - here are the results for hardness testing of standard Stihl, Oregon and GB chain.

All are 3/8, regular comp semichisel.

I measured a range of cutters, ties and drive links, at least 3, but typically 6 readings for each. About 100 measurements in all.

Stihl is the softest, Oregon was on average 3% harder, while GB was on average 4% harder. My measurement tolerance is about +/- 2% so there is technically NO difference between the Stihl and Oregon chains and the difference between Stihl and GB is borderline - I would not bet on it being a real difference.

Remember this Scientific hardness data and does not necessarily translate into how easy chains are to file or how long they take to wear - this depends on many other properties of materials.

This is what one would call a spot test. A proper test would require MUCH more testing across many different chains etc.

Cheers

Thanks for doing that test and, taking the time to do it!
What type of Oregon chain did you test? I really like the lgx I think the newer Oregon chain is just as good as anything else made.
Sorry out of rep points for ya get you next time.

 

[BobL]

Thanks for doing that test and, taking the time to do it!
What type of Oregon chain did you test? I really like the lgx I think the newer Oregon chain is just as good as anything else made.
Sorry out of rep points for ya get you next time.

I tested Oregon Chain numbers 72 (tie), 75 (cutter and driver) and 91 (driver)
It was all pretty much the same.

The Stihl was a chain number 3991 (driver, tie and cutter)

The GB was and A3EP (Carlton) (driver, tie and cutter)

 

[SawTroll]

I tested Oregon Chain numbers 72 (tie), 75 (cutter and driver) and 91 (driver)
It was all pretty much the same.

What he referred to is the relatively new "X-series" Oregon chains - they are supposed to hold up better than the old ones, regardless of model number.

 

[Austin1]

I tested Oregon Chain numbers 72 (tie), 75 (cutter and driver) and 91 (driver)
It was all pretty much the same.

Oh NO Now You Done It!!!
What are we going to argue over! I do like Carlton .325 and 3/8 lo pro as the cutter is huge and lasts forever with so much to file down. I think Stihl is the sharpest out of the box but now that the lgx is here just as good out of the box.
I am just a firewood cutter that likes to play with his saws I know how to use a file. I am happy with any chain as long as it is sharp

 

[Austin1]

What he referred to is the relatively new "X-series" Oregon chains - they are supposed to hold up better than the old ones, regardless of model number.

Have you given the X chain a try yet? I know you have been wounded and not able to get out as much. Hope you and Witchy get better so you can play with the saw's

 

[iowawoodcutter]

one of our tree feller customers wont have his chains sharpened by machine. he says it overheats the chain and makes it useless. is he right or wrong?

it can happen with a inexperienced grinder. If you grind too hard or fast you can turn the metal blue, then you might as well throw the chain in the garbage. I had a stihl dealer sharpen two of my stihl chains recently and they "blue'd" the metal, along with knicking all the drive links with the wheel, cutting the left and right sides uneven, and taking the chains from about 80% to about 30%.

Now I just hand sharpen everything and maybe someday I will buy a grinder....

 

[Austin1]

Bump, let's hear from the Stihl Heads on this one. Come on let's here more B.S how Stihl is better in every way.

 

[DMShaver]

Did he really think that the factory sharpening was done by hand??:help:

I am quite sure that a saw chain assembly line is populated by a bunch of guys running files across chain for 8 hours a day.... :hmm3grin2orange:

-Pat

At the factory the cutters are machined (sharpened) under a constant flow of lubricant. It's computer controlled and thus the cutters are never overheated.

There is nothing wrong with grinding, but unfortunately too many people don't understand how to do it properly, and the results can be devastating. Most professional woodcutters do not use grinders unless they hit something and cause major damage to the cutters. They hand file as soon as the chain shows signs of dulling, to maintain productivity. I find most people that grind their chains routinely, continue cutting with them until they are completely dull and damaged to the point of needing to remove 30%+ of the cutter in order to regain it's ability to cut productively again. The novice user tries to accomplish this in one swift stoke of the grinder and the result is a severely burned and distempered cutter.

I sharpen hundreds if not a thousand of feet of chain every year using mostly a file. Why?...simply because its impossible to get a chain as sharp with a grinder. Chains that I grind, are chains that are moderately damaged early on in their usable life, and are going to need more than 20-25 file strokes to regain their productivity. These chains are ground, hand filed (3-4 strokes), then the rakers are hand filed to match each individual cutter. Considering shop labor rates, grinding this is one of the only operations I perform in the shop that I usually loose money at. However, giving a customer back a properly sharpened chain is a sure-fire way to obtain repeat business.

 

[ned coed]

dmshaver, i understand what you say and i can see your point. the thing i noticed with this guys chain was that the left and right cutters were different length. the fact he was telling me how particular he was about his chain made me smile when i noticed his cutters. would that condition make the cut hard to keep straight?.

 

[lmalterna]

Can we argue about which steel type is best for the cutters? I like S7.... or S30V

2Door

 

[Poley4]

one of our tree feller customers wont have his chains sharpened by machine. he says it overheats the chain and makes it useless. is he right or wrong?

He's wrong or he has had them sharpened by someone who has no idea what they were doing.

 

[DMShaver]

dmshaver, i understand what you say and i can see your point. the thing i noticed with this guys chain was that the left and right cutters were different length. the fact he was telling me how particular he was about his chain made me smile when i noticed his cutters. would that condition make the cut hard to keep straight?.

A difference in cutter length is not going to make the chain pull to one side or the other, as long as the rakers have been filed accordingly. The only affect he might see is an increase in chatter while cutting. However, if he did not adjust the rakers, then yes, the side that is shorter will not cut as aggressively as the side in which the cutters are longer. The longer side will be more aggressive, resulting in the saw cutting faster on that side and the cut curving towards the shorter side. Make sense?

 

[SawTroll]

Have you given the X chain a try yet? I know you have been wounded and not able to get out as much. Hope you and Witchy get better so you can play with the saw's

We have some LGX chain that came with the Dolmar 5100 - so far I like the ol' 73LP a tad better than the 73LGX on that saw (smoother in the cut, and easier to get really sharp).

I haven't made any real tests, and it may be just because LP is what I am used to.

 

[DMShaver]

We have some LGX chain that came with the Dolmar 5100 - so far I like the ol' 73LP a tad better than the 73LGX on that saw (smoother in the cut, and easier to get really sharp).

I haven't made any real tests, and it may be just because LP is what I am used to.

The older LG/LP/JG/JP (all the same cutters) is smoother in the cut when compared to the new LGX/LPX/JGX/JPX, simply because of the amount of hook the cutters have when new out of the box. If you compare an LG cutter to an LGX cutter, when looking at the side plate, you will notice that the LGX hooks back abruptly from the leading corner. It's not a very long hook, but it gives the LGX it's aggressiveness out of the box. This makes LGX chain harder to control in a bore cut. To remedy this problem, simply file the chain to remove the hook, and it will bore smooth and chatter less.

 

[ned coed]

that explanation makes excellent sense. thanks