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Completely different things. One has little to do with the other.
Chain sharpening
- Thread starter rdtreewalker
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Completely different things. One has little to do with the other.
jake-
that's true in theory, but not in practice. but even so, here's the problem. what is your time worth. if it's over $25/hour, you're wasting money. you'd do better by buying a roll of chain and making a new one whenever the old one gets dull. that's the reason why in any busy shop, there's a bucket of dull chains.
Or a bucket full of opportunity!
I will repeat some of my rants in this post as well. If the user does not know what he/she is trying to accomplish, they will not get good results, regardless of what tool or method they use (file, guide, grinder, Timberline, magical incantations, psilocybin mushrooms, etc.). If they understand what a sharp cutter looks like, they should be able to improve a dull cutter using almost any method, although, they are likely to have more skill and experience with some, and therefore a preference.
“Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?
The Cheshire Cat: That depends a good deal on where you want to get to.
Alice: I don't much care where.
The Cheshire Cat: Then it doesn't much matter which way you go.
What is interesting to observe is how many guys impulsively defend hand filing with such an evangelical zeal. Really. Like I expect you to show up, well dressed, in pairs, at my doorstep on major holidays, holding a file and a copy of the 'Carlton Complete Book of Saw Chain'.
Sharp chains are important. If you find something that works for you; use it. Share your zeal. If you are not satisfied with your results, or curious what others do; please feel free to ask. But when the first 3 responses to a technical grinder question are predictably "I've never used a grinder; you should learn to hand file" it really sounds like folks asking for validation.
Philbert
(a mostly grinder guy that promiscuously, and openly, flirts with a variety of sharpening methods and accessories)
That's a very good point duke. Also true that not many people can file worth a quarter. I just never could stand taking a chain to be sharpened and paying near half what a new chain cost. There was a long time I always said I file some. Sometimes my chain will cut sometimes not I clear hedgerows quite a bit always run into barb wire or nails so I got a cheap grinder. After figuring out how the grinder worked I figured out how to file a chain to cut the way I wanted it to
Chain ho! Lol Alice in wonderland used to freak me out
The end result should certainly be similar
philbert,
at the tender age of 18, i packed my pickup and moved from the little spanish village where i grew up to the big city of san francisco. while in college i had learned some of the basic skills of jewelry making (art dept) and was able to land a job as "apprentice ring maker" on post street in the big city. there i spent eight hours, five days a week, filing gold and platinum lost wax castings to be sent the the polisher and then to the stone setter. i can tell you with a degree of certainty that the skills required to control a file only come with with great and prolonged effort. it's not a hand-eye thing its a whole-body-mind thing. not one human in a million has that skill. that being said, a guy with little skill can put a crude edge on a cutter, but every time he does it the chain gets a little worse, just my real world observations.
That sir is an excellent point. Indeed after a while a grinder is the answer to true things up That is a good way to make your point
Filing is definitely a skill. It requires a certain amount coordination and some knowledge of the desired outcome. ***I am not against hand filing***. And I think that a lot of guys can file 'good enough' to keep their saws running, especially when using a basic guide. I prefer the consistency and accuracy of a grinder, especially when sharpening a volume of chains.
Philbert
Philbert
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True enough Similar to a nail gun and a hammer I guess
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ChoppyChoppy
Tree Freak
A roll of Oregon chain costs us about $400 and can make about 22 loops of 20", so about $20/each.
Takes maybe 5 mins to grind a chain, so at $25/hr (wish I made that!), $2 of labor.
Though I have sold a new loop to customers that wanted a sharpen. Chain just so hammered it was not even worth the trouble. I don't understand how some folks can kill chains that bad, I swear I could try and cut a sheet of 1/2" plate shTeel and have a better looking chain!
The pails of chains we have are mostly from loops that were sharpened, made, fixed, etc and never picked up and off junked saws.
you're not quite typical. in the lower 48 a roll is closer to $300, less if you hit a good sale at baileys. i'm only familiar with norcal, and there, $25/hr is what you pay your rookie groundman. a climber can demand a lot more. you don't want to see either of these guys sitting around wrenching on equipment. their job is to get the mission done and the brush chipped and move on to the next client. And yes, i'd probably take the chain (and saw) back to the shop and grind it on sunday night, or i might just spin a new loop. i usually figure 20 loops per roll. 22 is only for 72dl chains if you're running 24" and up chain goes faster.
that dang chain bucket... i think there may be something happening in there. they seem to multiply.
For guys who are not on the clock, those 'dang chain buckets' can be bonanza. Especially if they are able to sharpen and resize loops.
I have bought some loops off eBay 'used once, never sharpened' from a tree guy that were a very good deal, including shipping. Some rental places also put a new chain on with each rental, to prevent any complaints.
But I do this on my own time. Everybody has to find something that works for them.
Philbert
I have bought some loops off eBay 'used once, never sharpened' from a tree guy that were a very good deal, including shipping. Some rental places also put a new chain on with each rental, to prevent any complaints.
But I do this on my own time. Everybody has to find something that works for them.
Philbert
Ax-man
Addicted to ArboristSite
I vote hand filing because of the simplicity you get from hand filing. I have a grinder and never cared for it because I would have to take the chain off and then monkey around with the grinder and then have to put the chain back on the saw. I could never get a chain as sharp as I could with a file doing it either with a file guide or without the file guide.
Hand filing isn't really that hard as long as you are using good sharp files and the correct size file in relation to the chain pitch and type of chain filed. Depth gauge settings on the rakers are very important to how fast or how well a chain will perform in the cut, more so than top plate and side plate angles. Another factor to consider is the bar and sprocket, a good sharpening either by hand or with a grinder will give lack luster results if a bar is in poor condition with uneven or spread, splayed or thin rails.
Hand filing isn't really that hard as long as you are using good sharp files and the correct size file in relation to the chain pitch and type of chain filed. Depth gauge settings on the rakers are very important to how fast or how well a chain will perform in the cut, more so than top plate and side plate angles. Another factor to consider is the bar and sprocket, a good sharpening either by hand or with a grinder will give lack luster results if a bar is in poor condition with uneven or spread, splayed or thin rails.
$ale 4.99 a loop instead of 7.99 loop. They had my 3/8 x .063 chisel in there @ around 80 DL more or less took 3 to get 2 loops long enough but still less expensive than a same amount off a 100' reel.' Cept was close @ $310 w/shipping on skip chisel reel recently.
