Chainsaw Milling Gabon Ebony STIHL MS 660 or MS 880?

[Wenge Man]

I have just recently purchased a 36" Alaskan Log Mill, 9' EZ Rail guides, and Log Wizard Debarker/Planer for the purpose of chainsaw milling 29" diameter logs of Gabon Ebony. I will be spending a week in the rainforest cutting the logs into slabs and log half's to make the wood portable and carry them out of the forest with brute strength and man power.

I have narrowed my search for chainsaws down to two choices:

1.) STIHL MS 660 (91.6 cc)

2.) STIHL MS 880 (121.6 cc)

Being that Gabon Ebony is about 3 times as hard as red oak and 40% harder than mesquite or persimmons wood, I am trying to decide if 91cc chainsaw will do the job well or if I NEED to go with the monster saw to make the work easier.

Any advice? Any experience cutting ebony logs or lumber with chainsaw?
:greenchainsaw:

 

[timberwolf]

Even with oak or hard maple 066 on CSM is not fast work when dealing with 2 foot plus logs. Seems the extra cost for the bigger saw would pay you back in productivity.

I wonder if a chainsaw driven bandsaw like a ripsaw would be worth it? with that expensive lumber kerf would be a considderation too, though I think it would be only practical up to 20 inch logs.

 

[woodsrunner]

Go big

If you don't have a saw already my advice would be to go for the 880. Once you start milling you won't stop and I can tell you from my experience bigger is better. The last thing you want to do is go on an expedition and not have enough saw. If it is harder than red oak go with the 880. Be sure to read up on all the CSM posts here before you jump in to this. Lots of good info posted here. Make sure you have enough spare pieces and parts when you go to the jungle. Sounds like fun, good luck.

Scott

 

[BobL]

I suggest the 880, with 3/8 full comp rip profile SEMI-CHISEL chain . Anything else will go blunt too quickly.

 

[Wenge Man]

Chainsaw Milling Gabon Ebony STIHL MS 880- Ripping Chain?

Thanks guys, looks like I will be going with the STIHL 880. Now I need to consider the type of chain I can/(will need to) use. The problem is I will be in dense forest with no access to electricity, so i will need to be able to sharpen my chains without a power source.

My first choice is a Carbide tip chain but they will need a formed diamond grinding wheel to be sharpened. I need a good chain that can be sharpened with a bar mount filer, and will not dull so easily. Can ripping chains be sharpened with a bar mount filer?

Any suggestions

** Thanks BobL, I received messages saying you would have the good milling advice for chainsaw. I also studied your "Milling with BIL Mill and the 880" post and found it helpful. Thanks to everyone.---Wenge Man**
:chainsawguy:

 

[timberwolf]

No problem at all to hand file rip chain, dead easy, many bar mounted jigs will adjust to the angles and heights required.

I find that 12 volt die grinder style sharpeners work very well for ripping chain and seam to hold the edge longer than filed. I think the reason being less fracturing of the chrome edge when ground than filed. I gues though you won't even have 12 volt from a truck or 4 wheeler to help there though.

Yes, I actually looked at ground and filed cutters under magnification.


Carbide and milling... thats uncharted water to me.

 

[Wenge Man]

Advice: Stihl rmc chain vs granberg ripping chain?

ADVICE: STIHL RMC CHAIN VS GRANBERG RIPPING CHAIN?

I have heard that the difference in performance is hardly noticeable and I have also heard the opposite. Does anyone have any experience or oppinion on the difference in the two chains?

 

[timberwolf]

I imagine you will be going through a fair bit of chain, expensive if you buy "ripping chain" easy to make chain up how ever you like it.

I think what works best depends on the wood. Some filed at 0 deg with every second top plate knocked off work well, others simple resharpening by filing at 0, 5 or 10 deg with file set lower work well too.

 

[Matildasmate]

Ripping chain

I use 3/8 semi-chisel chain sharpened to 15degs x 45degs , I also use carbide tipped chain on anything that is going to give me the willies , nothing will beat carbide . cheers MM

 

[BobL]

I would advise against using carbide for ebony unless the logs are very dirty - you simply cannot get carbide chain sharp enough to make a fast cut and you will be laboring the saw all day long with this chain. Ebony also does not cut but tends to chip almost like cutting a lump of coal. To extablish the chip the in first place the cutter needs to be sharp, as soon as it goes blunt it will just skid across the surface and blunten the cutter.

Cutting a 29" ebony will be about as much effort as cutting 45" spotted gum ie hard work. The best solution for these suckers is razor sharp cutters and touch up after every slab. Be prepared for a heap of filing.

 

[BlueRider]

I would probably opt for an older 075 over either the 660 or 880. I agree that the 880 would be better than the 660 but unless you have the ability to do a muffler mod similer to Bobs you will have excessve heat bouncing off the log anf back into the saw. this may or may not be acceptable in most milling situations but in a hot humid jungle it will definately not be a good thing. the exhaust on bioth the 660 and the 880 exits out the side and is directed towards the front(log). on the 075 (111cc) the exhaust exits out the side and towards the ground. for the first few cuts it is fine but then you will need to elivate the log to avoid heat from bouncing back into the saw. there are plenty of threads on here about using a portable hydrlic jack or a highlift jack to do the lifting.

The old 075's are pretty bullet proof, but because there were discontinued over 20 years ago you would want to have a spare ignition module but other than that a good strong 075 would be as reliagle as a new 066 or 880. with ANY saw you will want to take a spare air filter ot two, a starter recoil spring and rope and possibly a carb kit, or at least some starter fluid to use to clean the carb with as well as a spare plug. If your are heavy handed with a scrench I would take a spare fuel and oil cap as I have broken one and without it the saw is useless. ALso take along good quality tools to do the repairs you may need as well as plenty of spare screws and bolts for the saw and mill as they do seem to lossen at the most inopertune time and being deep in the jungle is just inviting things to rattle loose and become lost,(blue locktite is good stuff)

I would also recomend running stihl ultra hp mix oil because of its performance and stihl bio+ bar oil. Crawling around in oily sawdust in the heat and humidity I would want the bio oil vs dino.

The humidity will rob your saw of power and is another reasdon to go with the biggest saw you can.

Carbide will not sharpen as sharp as carbon steel. this will translate into requiring more power. I would also not recomend using a dremel type sharpener. When using one it is impossible to keep the height of the cutters consistant and this is much more important in milling than in cross cutting which is what these sharpenters are designed for. With minimal practice a hand held file will provide better results with nearly the same speed. a bar mounted wheel sharpener is a different matter and woulf be a good choice. I think Silvy used to make a 12v one and it cost a small fortune years ago.

pay attention to the height of the rakers I have been running mine at .035" vs the stock .020-.025 with good results but, forgetting about them can really slow your cutting time.

 

[Matildasmate]

I would advise against using carbide for ebony unless the logs are very dirty - you simply cannot get carbide chain sharp enough to make a fast cut and you will be laboring the saw all day long with this chain. Ebony also does not cut but tends to chip almost like cutting a lump of coal. To extablish the chip the in first place the cutter needs to be sharp, as soon as it goes blunt it will just skid across the surface and blunten the cutter.

Cutting a 29" ebony will be about as much effort as cutting 45" spotted gum ie hard work. The best solution for these suckers is razor sharp cutters and touch up after every slab. Be prepared for a heap of filing.

You obviously have no idea what tungsten tip chain cuts like bob , it craps all over any other chain . Cheers MM

 

[mtngun]

Matilda's Mate, if you have time, would you show us pics of your sharpening setup for carbide chain, and a close-up of a sharpened chain ?

No carbide chains or hardwood trees of any sort in my neighborhood, so I can't offer any advice on cutting ebony, I'm just curious to learn.

I do work with carbide in the machine shop and it can be sharpened just as sharp as steel, though it rarely comes that way from the factory. It takes a "micro-grain" carbide and a fine grit diamond sharpening wheel or stone.

 

[Matildasmate]

Matilda's Mate, if you have time, would you show us pics of your sharpening setup for carbide chain, and a close-up of a sharpened chain ?

No carbide chains or hardwood trees of any sort in my neighborhood, so I can't offer any advice on cutting ebony, I'm just curious to learn.

I do work with carbide in the machine shop and it can be sharpened just as sharp as steel, though it rarely comes that way from the factory. It takes a "micro-grain" carbide and a fine grit diamond sharpening wheel or stone.

Hi Mtngun , I will take a couple of shots for you soon , its nothing special , just one of those 12 volt electric sharpeners {Sharp n eze or grind n joint} and a diamond stone , it take about 3-5 minutes to sharpen a 20" chain and about 10 to do a 36" chain .Cheers MM pics soon . Found a pic of the sharpener , doubt that I will be able get a closeup picture of a sharpened tooth , I cant figure out how the macro works on my digital camera. The instruction manual is about as handy as a burnt worm .

 

[mtngun]

MM, are you saying that you sometimes use carbide chain for ripping hardwoods ? Does carbide chain cut longer before needing sharpening ? Any estimate of how much longer ?

 

[Matildasmate]

MM, are you saying that you sometimes use carbide chain for ripping hardwoods ? Does carbide chain cut longer before needing sharpening ? Any estimate of how much longer ?

In hardwood a minimum of around 4-5 times as long , the manufacturers say around 10 , but I think they may be refering to softwood , which does not surprise me at all . Cheers MM

 

[Wenge Man]

Carbide Tip Chain

In hardwood a minimum of around 4-5 times as long , the manufacturers say around 10 , but I think they may be refering to softwood , which does not surprise me at all . Cheers MM

When cutting ebony on a band sawmill it is advised to used carbide tip blades.

My first choice was the carbide tip chain, but in my STIHL catalog it says that their carbide tip chain can only be sharpened by formed grinding wheel. As I will be 4 or 5km (2.5-3miles) in dense forest, I will not have a power supply so I decided to go with the STIHL RMC chain and file the cutters to 40 deg and see how that works.

 

[Matildasmate]

When cutting ebony on a band sawmill it is advised to used carbide tip blades.

My first choice was the carbide tip chain, but in my STIHL catalog it says that their carbide tip chain can only be sharpened by formed grinding wheel. As I will be 4 or 5km (2.5-3miles) in dense forest, I will not have a power supply so I decided to go with the STIHL RMC chain and file the cutters to 40 deg and see how that works.

I just use my little 12 volt electric sharpener , but like you said no power supply makes that a little hard . Cheers MM

 

[mtngun]

As I will be 4 or 5km (2.5-3miles) in dense forest, I will not have a power supply so I decided to go with the STIHL RMC chain and file the cutters to 40 deg and see how that works.

Will you have access to 120V or 12V (car battery) back at your base camp/home ? If so, you could sharpen at home and then merely swap chains in the forest. You will want to have a few spare chains, regardless.

Regarding using a formed diamond grinding wheel, you probably don't want to hear this, but if your ebony adventures are profitable and if you decide to continue milling, eventually you will probably break down and buy an electric chain grinder, whether it is for standard chain or carbide chain. Most of us use a file to touch up chains in the forest, but after several filings, a grinder does a good job of restoring the correct angle and creating consistent cutter lengths.

When you return, let us know what you learned, and how the sawing worked out for you.

Good luck !!!

 

[BobL]

When cutting ebony on a band sawmill it is advised to used carbide tip blades.

My first choice was the carbide tip chain, but in my STIHL catalog it says that their carbide tip chain can only be sharpened by formed grinding wheel. As I will be 4 or 5km (2.5-3miles) in dense forest, I will not have a power supply so I decided to go with the STIHL RMC chain and file the cutters to 40 deg and see how that works.

I don't understand the 40º? It is a very high top plate angle even for cross cutting. It will remove more wood than necessary which creates a bigger kerf and imposes a larger loading onto the saw and a lot of additional vibration, and give you a very rough finish.

I was getting and exception finish and a reasonable cutting speed on a slab recently and kept meaning to check the top plate angle because it looked very low. Today I checked the angle and it was between 2 and 4º! I'm not advocating this for ebony but 10º to 15º should be OK.