Chainsawmill Cutting speed's

[Matildasmate]

Can anyone tell me what speed they get out of there csm , ft a minute , roughly , This could be useful info . what size cut , hp or cc and so on , also what chain angles . Im currently using WoodsmenPro(Carlton chain)2-3' a minute roughly , havn't timed it ,18-24" cut , sharpened at 15deg's x 45deg's , 91.5cc . Cheers MM

 

[BlueRider]

cutting speeds in walnut

Last time I was out it was the first time with my new saw so I happened to time one of the cuts. the saw was a fresh Stihl 051 with .404 x 63 chain, the log was a 24"x 6' claro walnut, the time per cut was 8 minutes. That includes picking up and starting the saw as well as taking it off the log and setting it down. What I am trying to say is that I don't have a stop watch or another person to time me so it is somewhat ballpark.

The 051 is 89cc and around 6 hp and runs at about 7500 rpm

I file my chains at 15 x 55 degrees. the steeper tooth may be harder to push through the cut but it lasts longer and with the 051 I have enough torque to push rocks tied to string through the log. In fact I lower the rakers down to take .040" cut per tooth and I have been thinking of increasing that to .045" on the walnut because it is so easy to mill compared to the cypress which is one of the more dificult woods I mill. having milled black acacia/blackwood I would place monterey cypress as more dificult to mill even though it is a softer wood.

I will be milling more of the same walnut all winter long so I hope to get a nice comparison of milling speeds for different widths of logs as well as with the monster saw I am building.

I am not too interested in switching to narrower chain but I am curious about how diferent angles affect cutting speeds ballanced with the time it takes to keep them sharp.

 

[aquan8tor]

Is it the gumminess of the cypress that makes it difficult to saw?? I would think that it'd clog the teeth quick with a slower chain speed from the torque monster 051. Maybe a modified chain like the granberg would help. I'm surprised about the depth rakers being that low. I set mine somewhere around .035, I think....I'd been using the oregon guide, where each little mark equals a certain amount, and set it about where I thought that'd be. I just got a Northern 511A copy & haven't bothered to get a feeler gauge to check depth rakers.


I spent a couple afternoons this week sawing up cants of yellow pine to then slice next week with the ripsaw into siding. With regular kerf 3/8 carlton at 5deg. I was getting a cut in about 3 minutes for an 8-9 foot log with a 14-16" cut from a 32" bar, no auxiliary oiler for the pine. When I sliced the tops off a couple 6" thick cants I made with low profile chain filed at 5 deg, and a smaller 20 inch bar, I was finishing a 9' long cut in under a minute.


I've personally found that I get less vibration out of the narrower 5 deg. angle than I did with a 10deg. angle, and it comes out definitely looking smoother. Just my .02. I thought about sharpening a few chains up at different angles and timing cuts off the same cant with the CSM for some 8/4 stock I'm going to use for a workbench top. Don't know if I'm going to get to that this week, as I made the mistake of (trying to) rolling the logs around on uneven ground by myself without a cant hook, as I'd forgotten to bring it along with me. Needless to say, I've been popping advil and tylenol like candy the past couple days.

 

[BlueRider]

I guess I forgot to mention what kind of chain I run. The timed cuts were with Oregon ripping chain. I have a couple of loops of Granberg chain but have not noticed a significant differance in performance, time or finish, to make it worth the additional time it takes to maintain.

I havn't worked with any bald cypress but I suspect it is very different from the monterey cypress we have along the CA coast. Our cypress does have its share of sap and it certianly does gum up chains but it is just downright hard dence stuff and tough on chains.

I recently switched to using stihl Bio+ bar oil on all the walnut I have been milling this summer and noticeed that the bar gums up significantly less than with dino oil. I am looking forward to trying the Bio+ on some of the more resinous woods. I should probably add that I run a 42" bar and an auxillary oiler.

another way of measuring depth rakers is with a good rule and a pir of dial calipers. I say a good rule becaule most of the good ones are exactly 1" wide so if you hold the rule on edge across the rakers and use the end of the dial calipers to measure the deepth from the top edge of the rule to the a tooth then subtract an inch. if I haven't explainded this very well let me know and I will try and snap a pic.

 

[Railomatic]

All of my CSM's are fitted with 50" Cannon Superbars with a 325 nose/chain conversion, which vastly improves cutting speed, in some timbers almost twice as fast.
My mills are all driven by MS 880's and can handle full width planks without any undue stress upon the chains, which handle things very well with no breakages so far.
For a 24" plank in oak I can cut a 10 feet plank in around 8-10 minutes, using 325, and 15-18 minutes with 404, the 325 outfit will give me two extra planks in the given size log mentioned.
You can see some of my mills in action here at www.chainsawmills.co.uk.

DDS.

 

[Matildasmate]

Exelent info so far many thank's

Excellent info so far guy's , many thank's for your participation, I am sure this info will give many member's , some sort of idea what to expect from their mill's . Cheers MM

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I'm with Raily- .325 chain . Vast improvement in finish, speed and lumber yield over 3/8 and .404.

I tried it on my 72" bar once and it didnt' break but it stretched badly. I reluctantly have to use 3/8" on my 66" and 72" bars.

Here's some results from some chain testing I did a while back. This was on an 8' long water oak log I squared out to 24" wide.


Data in this order-

Pitch, Style / brand, Grind angles, Sprocket (# of pins), Kerf width, Min:Sec


.404, full comp ripping WP, 5-60-10, 8, 3/8", 7:10

0.375, full comp ripping WP, 5-60-10, 9, 5/16", 6:45

0.375, granberg, 5-60-10, 9, 5/16", 6:55

0.325, full comp Carlton K3C, 5-60-10, 9, 9/32", 5:29

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I've personally found that I get less vibration out of the narrower 5 deg. angle than I did with a 10deg. angle, and it comes out definitely looking smoother.

I found this to be true as well but 10 deg does cut a bit faster. I typically use 10 deg for that reason.

 

[aquan8tor]

Aggie, where do you get your chain? I checked bailey's but they don't have any .325 rip chain. Is it a GB product??

I hadn't realized the speed difference with 5 and 10 deg. angles. Maybe I'll go back to 10 degrees. Have you ever tried putting weight on the mill like Malloff did? I originally thought about that for vibration, but never got around to it. I haven't read it, but I've seen a few pics from "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" where Malloff used a thick log cookie to keep the mill securely against the log surface without having to use any hands at all except to crank a hand winch-drive to pull the mill along, and a remote throttle trigger.

 

[Railomatic]

big bars and 325 chain

I would like to add to my previous posting, that a bar fitted with 325 that is any longer than 50 inches does tend to stretch the chains some, 325 chain works best at 50 inches, if you use longer bars, one must be very gentle on the uptake of the throttle smoothly does it, once you are in the timber a fixed throttle is a must, I never use the hand throttle once I'm into the log, this gives a much smoother passage through the log, it you are going to use the hand throttle, then I would apt for 3/8, but never 404 because its just too wasteful, especially in a nice walnut log.

Adjusting the correct angle of cuter is another way to minimise stress on your chain, this is the norm for freshly cut logs, but a log that has been standing for several months needs and even steeper angle for cutting hardwoods, I have used zero degrees in the past on hardwood logs, oiling or cooling is the other most important senario, if the chain is too hot it will stretch what ever the chain size or type is being used.

I sometimes fit a secondary cooling water feed for cuting logs that have been standing for more than six months, this makes a big diference, if you use any of the water soluable type oils you can obtain wherever you reside, it emusifies and cools everything very nicely.

The mention of weighting the mill against the timber is not needed, if you fit a side roller to the mill, this works by letting the chain pull the mill in tight against the log and guides the whole rig along with relative ease, saving valuable strength and time, there is no point in letting the mill being slammed against the log and trying to wrestle with it to advance along the edge of the board, let the side roller do all the work not yourself, then you will have little to no bouncing of the mill against the log each time you try to slide/advance sideways.

Picture is of my side roller fitted directly below the risier post of the mill.

Raily

 

[BobL]

. . . I originally thought about that for vibration, but never got around to it. I haven't read it, but I've seen a few pics from "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" where Malloff used a thick log cookie to keep the mill securely against the log surface without having to use any hands at all except to crank a hand winch-drive to pull the mill along, and a remote throttle trigger.

I realise this is not going to help those who have fixed flatbed type mills but neither a weight or a winch or pusging are necessary when milling on a slope. I was warned by many folk about the amount of energy and effort required to use a CSM. However, when I use a slope, by far the greatest amount of work I do is few seconds of lifting the mill on and off the log, and then pushing the slabs off. For irregular shaped logs (ie branch ends and lumps and bumps) I do prefer to keep my hands on the CSM to negotiate my way around these

There are of course other good reasons to use a winch, like physically moving away from the powerhead. Something to fiddle with in the future.

Cheers

 

[Railomatic]

There are of course other good reasons to use a winch, like physically moving away from the powerhead. Something to fiddle with in the future.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

This is why I made and designed my own rail mill, this does exactly what you are thinking, it gets you away from the noise and dirt 95% of the time, setting up is very quick, about ten mins, have a look at one in action in the attachments, I'm thinking of doing a cutting list and building instructions if anyone is interested.

 

[BobL]

This is why I made and designed my own rail mill, this does exactly what you are thinking, it gets you away from the noise and dirt 95% of the time, setting up is very quick, about ten mins, have a look at one in action in the attachments, I'm thinking of doing a cutting list and building instructions if anyone is interested.

Count me in - here's my steel scavenged from a dumpster near my house!.
Even comes with a set of rollers!!!

Thanks Railo!

Cheers

 

[Matildasmate]

Nice find mate

You got a better set of roller's than mine mate , exelent stuff . Cheers MM

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Aggie, where do you get your chain? I checked bailey's but they don't have any .325 rip chain. Is it a GB product??

I hadn't realized the speed difference with 5 and 10 deg. angles. Maybe I'll go back to 10 degrees. Have you ever tried putting weight on the mill like Malloff did? I originally thought about that for vibration, but never got around to it. I haven't read it, but I've seen a few pics from "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" where Malloff used a thick log cookie to keep the mill securely against the log surface without having to use any hands at all except to crank a hand winch-drive to pull the mill along, and a remote throttle trigger.

I buy it from Stens (GB) at 800-765-9357. It's actually Carlton K-3 semi-chisel but they re-tag it with their numbers. Ask for Norm and tell him Jared sent you. He'll know what you are talking about.


I use bags of lead shot. You can see them in many of the pics I have posted. I have an electric winch drive mechanism in the works but hadn't had much time to work on it lately.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Count me in - here's my steel scavenged from a dumpster near my house!.
Even comes with a set of rollers!!!

Thanks Railo!

Cheers

Nice score!

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

This is why I made and designed my own rail mill, this does exactly what you are thinking, it gets you away from the noise and dirt 95% of the time, setting up is very quick, about ten mins, have a look at one in action in the attachments, I'm thinking of doing a cutting list and building instructions if anyone is interested.

Interested!opcorn:

 

[Mad Professor]

066 running stihl 3/8 0.050 PMX chain on a logosol. I can rip a 16" X 12' cut in dead white ash in 2-3 minutes if the chain is sharp. This chain is the same as regular sthil PM chain but the cutter is sharpened to ca. 5 degress. As this chain is designed for smaller saws it is not recommended for bars > 25"

 

[wdchuck]

There is so much good information, data here that the wheels in my brain are starting to smoke. I'll be busy in the workshop this fall.

Railomatic, add me to the list of interested parties, and I bet a beam from some rack shelving would make a good rail, cheap to get around here second hand.

THanks for taking the time to post your info guys, :greenchainsaw: .

We need a milling smilie.

 

[woodshop]

066 running stihl 3/8 0.050 PMX chain on a logosol. I can rip a 16" X 12' cut in dead white ash in 2-3 minutes if the chain is sharp.

WOW... if I did the math right, that's a foot of 16 inch wide ash hardwood in 10 seconds. That's some fast milling.

A LOT of good info in this thread from several people... I'm loving this. I never did an exact timed test, but have timed myself several times quick and dirty. Found that speed is not linear. In other words, in small stuff like 8-10 inch wide softwood, I can mill almost walking (ok, slowly walking) down the log. Seems like childs play for the saw. Double that width though, and things start to slow down a whole lot.

Milling times? ... 395XP (94cc saw) with standard 3/8 ripping chain from Baileys on 36" bar, in 18 inch wide oak I go through about 3 seconds per inch, which is a little less than 2 ft a minute. In 24-28 inch wide oak, double that time, about a foot a minute, and then ONLY if the chain is sharp. As soon as it even starts to get dull, things slow to a crawl fast.